The Donnager faces its biggest challenge yet! Defeat. SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast Bluesky: @yumyumpodcast.bsky.social Tiktok: @yumyumpod Tumblr: @yumyumpod
We are just your average married couple who love watching and talking about science-fiction television. The Expanse is the series we’re talking about and one we’re watching through for the first time! Listen to us break down episodes of The Expanse and see if it’s as good as everyone says it is. Exploring The Expanse is released to our Patreon first and so if you want to hear more of our discussions then come over and support the podcast.
This week we’re exploring The Expanse episode “CQB”
It’s time to unleash the blue goo!
SUPPORT US:
EMAIL US:
FOLLOW US:
Twitter: @YumYumPodcast
Facebook: @YumYumPodcast
Instagram: @yumyumpod
Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast
Bluesky: @yumyumpodcast.bsky.social
Tiktok: @yumyumpod
Tumblr: @yumyumpod
LISTEN ON:
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2NbEuaH
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2CjDLSs
Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/37NheZP
Simplecast: https://bit.ly/2ASPib8
RadioPublic: https://bit.ly/30WxQ01
iHeartRadio: https://ihr.fm/2VnKBgq
Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3hIryqF
TuneIn: https://bit.ly/3dDzjuP
Youtube: https://bit.ly/3dk7tDA
[Music] hi Ryan hi Rachel how are you I'm doing okay we've reached the end of a working week we like to record these on a Friday night and so I'm just a bit over it I'm a bit tired but I am excited to sit down and talk to you about something that we've watched uh how about you how are you doing overall I'm over it just overwork you're overworked and overworked wow they overwork you you you deserve a hero's wage you do but we're here to do something heroic ourselves uh deliver to you out there the Yum Yum we're the only podcast in the entire universe that has yum yum yum energy and what is that that is where a married couple sits down and talks about individual episodes of Science Fiction television and are inspired by the Yum Yum line from Star Trek Discovery what's that line well it's a exactly what you think it is a person just said yum yum in reply to something what was that something well uh Academy award-winning actress Michelle yo asks this other character would you like to kill someone for me and they said with me oh with me and they said yum yum I almost said yes like I was going to follow that naturally but that's not how Star Trek Discovery Works we've covered Star Trek Discovery we've talked about Babylon 5 we've talked about space above and beyond and today we're sitting down to talk about the expanse a series that is new to us something that we have not consumed uh wholeheartedly before I have mentioned in the past that when this initial Ed I watched the first six episodes but I have no real recollection uh little bit of a lie I do remember I do remember one specific image that was in this episode which uh which is hard to forget this specific image let's just uh let's just leave it at that but uh overall we are first time Watchers of the expanse so feel free to join us if you are watching it for the first time yourselves or or if you're somebody experienced with the expanse whether it's the books or the show you can listen to us fumble our way through it and just just like little children just stagger across going oh is is this what this could mean and you can laugh you can laugh or you can be in awe of how genius we are that's what I mean by laughter by the way you can laugh at how smart we are cuz I doubt we'll get anything wrong about any of the things here and well all just so obvious it's just all so obvious and this is a patreon uh first show so if you are not on our patreon you should come over to it because by the time this comes out on the Main feed we'll have made our way through a couple of seasons of the expans so if you want to skip ahead and hear what we have to say about episode I don't know four of season 2 right now you can do so by supporting us over at the patreon now Rachel do you remember what episode we watched today
CB no CQB yeah oh my yep CQB which stood for Close Quarter battle yeah I was talking to you about that while we're watching it I know CQC which is close quarter combat but I was guessing B and I thought battle would be it because I couldn't think of another word that could be the one did you have any guess on just what the initials were by any chance no but as soon as you said that I was like he's going to be right because he's always right and that also makes a lot of sense I think they're averting power to the rail guns that means we CQB with they CQB Close Quarter battle who would be insane enough to take on the dager in CQB now the IMDb summary for this is a delight so it says this Holden and crew are caught in the middle of a desperate battle as a mysterious as mysterious warships attack and board the Doner uh as Miller continues to investigate Julie Mau his partner havlock continues to go missing I love that I continues to go missing it's like whoever wrote this hates have loock too like there's not a pro like there's not a process to going missing once you're missing it's Rachel Rachel Rachel he's continuing going missing he's not been found yet it's like hide and seek he's still out there no what's hilarious is somebody finds him during the episode justes to Rob him why to say that I've done a good amount of the talking so I want to hear from you your your just your quick fire thoughts your impressions your feelings overall on episode four of the expanse like I had two sort of main takeaways one is that it's moving forward in the way that I think it is like each episode moves the pieces in the way that I'm expecting it's just like okay we have this little bit with Christian and she does this sort of thing um Miller does this sort of thing and this thing happens and Holden is in this situation and he's at this point by the end of the episode like it's very logical yeah logical storytelling they're not pulling out major twists on me I was just like oh I cuz I'm I'm being very analytical about it not just because we're doing the podcast it's also a new show it's a new show It's A New Perspective and the other thing that I noted after we finished it was I'm enjoying the World building a lot more now that it's slowed down yeah the World building aspects have slowed down while the plots are are fast like picking up steam so what did you think of the episode though that was a very as you said analytical at a distance but what did you think of CQ C CQB CQB I enjoyed it overall um sort of at the end of it I was just feeling like yeah this is a world that I can spend six seasons in oh so you're warming to it overall yes but I'm I'm very wary that it may not stay at a certain level of quality because I know that it got cancelled and it got picked up by Amazon and I don't have much faith in shows that Amazon I've I've never watched an Amazon show other than of course when Star Trek Picard was distributed on there for Australia yes so I have no clue I don't even know I just don't think that they they they very much have um seem to have the model of anything can be put on Amazon Prime interesting because sci-fi which this was originally on is the one out of the two that has the worst reputation worse reputation you look more yeah down on them now I enjoyed this one quite a bit I I didn't enjoy it as much as the last episode the last episode had more of the elements that I like to sink my teeth into but this one did have that structure a bit more that I was yearning for in the previous one where we spent more time on one story in particular yeah and and I think that was beneficial to making this one stand out in comparison to the previous ones but yeah I I didn't enjoy it as strongly and I I also want to point out that according to IMDb This is the highest rated episode we've watched thus far it's an 8.5 quite a step up as well in comparison 8.5 but I liked it more than the last episode okay interesting so see there's the difference between us two now my favorite moment oddly enough was something that I treated very dismissively in the previous so let's open up the can of worms that is Mormons in Space Mr Johnson the latterday Saints took a considerable risk hiring you to build the navu I know Teo spin up asteroids we don't build ships not till now it was so specific in the way that it was done and what it needed to get done and it it's a very weird compliment but a lot of the writing in the expanse is
efficient and I think that scene exemplifies that how so because it it doesn't set up too much information it's creating Intrigue we get a little bit of background we know that they're on this station that's been mentioned the Tao mhm um then we find out that they're building a ship we find out that this dude is related to a terrorist organization yes Cen from uh the orille same actor as him yes Oba the Opa Opa uh just just just to quickly go over it for a sec the scene is just this random guy who we don't know I don't even know his name but he's an Opa terrorist or related to the OPA and he's helping bring all these belters along to build a spaceship for the Mormons to fly away to a planet that's 100 years away and it's a conversation between another solar system another solar system it's conversation between this Mormon Elder having concerns about the OPA something that is a a running thread throughout every episode obis skating that by saying the elders have concerns and then it evolves to I have concerns Y and that's the scene but as you were saying it's quite efficient it's cutting through a lot of that World building stuff like you're like you're talking about where we know that this station exists we're now learning that this spaceship exists and there's this specific purpose to it but it's not bogging itself down in just Exposition it's not doing more than it has to do it's not trying to build up these characters it's we need this information so we're presented this information and it's coming in now because it's going to be important important later and it might be that we'll get uh a couple of scenes next episode that relate to this or we'll get just another one off scene and it'll keep on building up because a big question that the show is making you ask is who is making these stealth ships and we're seeing that there's many different people out in the Galaxy that are building ships all over the place and time and patience can allow and money of course can allow that and if the Mormons this organization that exists outside of just Earth Mars and the belt can make their own ship their own Ark that can fly off for 100 years why can't somebody build some nasty little stealth ships last episode we got the Mormons in that little moment comedy club now we've gotten a full scene with one of them I what I really was drawn to about this was uh a few things one it's an interesting concept Mormons being this religious group that has persevered and now they're going out into the stars and you and I can talk a little bit more about that and Mormonism because you have a fasc ation with the Mormons that's your internet Rapid hole you like to go down the ever and we can break into that in a second but what I really like about outside of that concept which is novel to me I haven't seen that like this whole Arc in space isn't new but this twist to it is but I really liked how it was a conversation that was realistic it makes sense it's giving us Exposition setting up the story thread but it was also uh philosophical musing and thematic musing as well I was really hooked in by the uh exchange about how well guess what religions not all of them were just founded on being civil many of them were founded on rebelling against the authority including in violent ways and you the Mormons should understand that more than anybody else and the Elder there being a bit of a hypocrite about it looking at it and acknowledging it on the face value but not actually acknowledging it because he is uncomfortable with the Mormons uh uh Holy Ship being uh fueled by terrorists basically or being aligned with a group that has that uh lean to them and I found that to be just such an enriching moment and really makes me lean forward and go okay you've got me interested in the Mormons now not what I was expecting to say after last episode but I actually want to know how they are going to play into the story I want to know their relationship going forward with this guy and the OPA and I don't know how are they going to connect to the rest of it are they going to get attacked by the stealth ship I don't know but just that idea of how civil being civil doesn't always mean doing the right thing sometimes you have to fight against the powers and we're watching all these other players in the story try and maintain the status quo try and maintain order the balance of power but here we have somebody arguing that that there is is a detriment to society and often these uh steps forward are made through organizations like the OPA or ones that would eventually become religious uh groups yeah the OPA is only interested in human rights and jobs for all belters and fomenting riots on series and inflaming passions in the wake of the canabury the history of organized religion isn't exactly Strife free lots lots of people have uh Fascinations I a lot of mine are to do with lifestyles mhm Cults murders weird religions right I was going to specify a bit further and say Lifestyles that I would never want to take part in I like seeing people who live their lives very differently to me and Scientology doesn't grab me as much for whatever reason like I've watched some Scientology doos and stuff like that and it hasn't grabbed me as much in that weird sick Fascination way yes yes as the Mormons and I think it's because the Mormons seem so normal on the outside and then you learn more and more about the weird rules and what it's like on the inside of the temple and it's just like and it it's also weirdly more accessible cuz it's just like yeah you can pay your way to the top MH of the Mormon church and you obviously have the tithing thing but with Scientology I just like how Rachel says that like you know obviously obviously you have that obviously I don't know what that mean I don't know what she's referring to like tithe you know what a tie it is yeah I don't know it in relation fully I you know so much more about the moment like literally you brought up last episode and this is why I wanted to press you you brought up last episode that they have a special planet that they want to go to well yeah they have the idea that they all get well in some versions of their sort of Mythos they get their own planet in space that's what these guys are going to that's like the highest level the celestial Kingdom I think these guys are flying off to a Celestial Kingdom um like you'll get your own spot and at least currently if you've had multiple wives in your life so like they've the mainstream Mormon church right I just find this super [ __ ] weird um has outlawed polyamory for the living but not in the afterlife because their marriage is last into the Afterlife but if your spouse dies and you remarry then you are married to both in the afterlife interesting um but yeah they like Mormons have this whole idea and conception of space and the celestial King s and various other things that I have a vague knowledge about but I want to Circle back do you know what the word tithe means no okay so it basically means to give a portion of your income to the church like it's pretty much always the church so I think with Mormons to stay like active members they have to give like 10% of their in inome which um some people find a bit tricky when it comes to online creators who are a bit secretive about how they're Mormon ah and they don't want their money going to the church but maybe they want to support the Creator but they can't support the Creator without not supporting the church and in this you can see how the church is using that idea to make a spaceship Yep they're funding themselves to a Escape Norman church has billions of dollars oh they're very they're very powerful like they are all like they're so they're powerful now and Wealthy now imagine in the future yeah you get the idea that that's just compounded especially because they have entire states that are majority Mormon now they have cities uh I actually spotted that the ship's name was one of their their cities or their temples I said to you like isn't that one of their like well established places like isn't that one of their founding places and you looked at me like I'd have to look it up and I'm like I felt very smart I'm like oh I got it seen I got confused cuz you were like the name of the station and I was like the name of the station's the ship but but it's the is the ship and it's a um one of I think it's like one of the main places where they they built a temple uh when they were going through with Joseph Smith and then they rebuilt the temple over again later okay so that may tie into it as well the idea of maybe this is an ark that's being rebuilt like it's back into that idea that's linked to the temple maybe it's also the idea that this Temple that exists on Earth is now being propelled into space to go away like they're redoing it again this is the ultimate step that you can take with that in compar with in relation to what you mentioned about the Celestial Kingdom right but I I am very interested now in seeing the Mormons in this show I I I dismissed them before because I don't I personally do not have a fascination with Insidious and I don't for them all that but you are more intrigued by them as just this Oddity of culture and society and so uh with you when it comes to them being why care if you have caffeine or not why do you need like three ler cups of soda Rachel knows see this is stuff Rachel knows but I was just going to ask you you have seen in science fiction a lot of religions be used Catholicism so many like that damn hot atheist though atheism of course the best religion we've seen Jews Jews in space we've seen that as well like Judaism whether it is direct or in symbolism Star Trek obviously has a lot of that but fori well I was going to say Vulcans but uh for for you somebody who has a little bit of knowledge on the Mormons I mean what do you think about them being an aspect of the experience like before they were just like a little throwaway thing but now they're saying these are going to be in the show I find it really interesting especially like we watched Battle Star Galactica not that long ago and that has a lot of Mormon beliefs in it not Mormons in it right it's it's dressed up in layers of sci-fi allegory yeah but the idea of okay well anywhere there's humans Mormons would go to try and convert you're about to send your best and brightest Mormons on a 100-year voyage to a new world around a new Sun who knows what tragic malfunctions might occur along the way I think it's time that we discuss your One True Love My One True Love yeah oh you want to talk about half loock already do you no he's he's in he's literally in the trash in this episode which I found good job writers that was a neat touch he's like your mistress but the true love of course is Christian over on Earth and what is happening with her she's only in one or two scenes but they're poignant they're poignant scenes and important cuz that's what point needs that's what she's is every every scene with her is important it feels like there could be a scene of her literally just clipping her toenails and I'll say to you that scene so important I wish that was whole the um Italian mobos from The Sopranos oh that really narrows it down the one who the female one in Italy oh right toils and make sure to burn them so that the like witches can't get them you specified you just said Italian mob boss I'm like well there's so many of them and she's you know Sicilian if we want to get real succinct but yes Christian what is happening here with her Rachel she is getting updates on what's Happening we're learning that that uh Earth is aware of what's Happening they have surveillance on it y but they can't get there fast enough yep a few days away but they do have the technology to monitor what is happening they can get pretty quick relay on that which makes sense because it's light yeah yeah it's true light travels pretty fast sorry and it's just another example of Earth's power reaching very far into space and so even though she's all the way back on Earth she can still have this sense of being in this conflict because really the majority of the episode is her uh worrying about this yeah she doesn't know what's happening out there she doesn't know what is going to happen to Holden and the the crew that have been captured by the Martians who knows what what the play is going to be here and then when the attack starts happening now there's even more of an unknown uh Factor at play here but a lot of her scenes are just that that face just solemnly looking into into the distance there's lots of great background details Brian George is in the background of a scene reading a uh reading to A bunch of children and even his story choice of story is sort of reflective of the pensiveness that is key to this thread of our story it's not going for the dramatic irony that in the background life is innocent and naive no it's not even going for that we do get a portion of that a sliver of that when it comes to uh Chris Jen is eventually sitting on her rooftop looking up at the stars and L down St gazing stargazing oh yeah and her grandson who is unnamed by the way I I I looked like I was looking at GDB and they just have him as grandson I'm like okay no name yet which is weird I feel like think he was in another episode he was in the it's how we met her he threw a water balloon at her we haven't seen him again since then then no he's just the grandson but he is this innocent perspective on the world and before we get into into a little bit of the he stuff with with this I did have a chuckle as did you when she's laying on this roof off it's it's gorgeous to look at that outfit how they've got it around her head they've even made it the thumbnail in IMDb for the episode but it it very much reminds me of the set in Third Rock From the Sun I I was thinking about that the whole time during the sequence of oh when's Harry going to come in where's John Lithgow is he going to come up there and yell at Sally I I did get a big amount of amusement of being reminded that this was Third Rock From the Sun almost um I briefly had like you bought up that and then I couldn't unsee it and I was just like how amazing truly how amazing would it be if it was Joseph C and left it as the grandson I'm just sure it's it's just rocks it's just rocks there not even going to be ones big enough to cause that much damage just burn up in the atmosphere here has a backward cap song his long he has his long girly hair
again it's still it's still this actress though she's she's not an alien but he
is hey I love Third Rock From the Sun look look if the experts could have Brian George in it what
if the expans get have Brian George in it what's what's Rachel Rachel Rachel calm down Rael what's stopping it listen to the question take a breath what's stopping this show from having Wayne Knight in it from having Wayne Knight in it if he came in and he's the chief of police wait wait if Wayne Knight is the head of the
UN that would be [ __ ] casting Rach Los it imagine this Wayne Knight is the head of the UN that voice he has his he usually his goatee nowadays so imagine the image no you can't put that in my head I'm not going to be able no no no fair T if you needed Underpants you could have just asked I didn't need Underpants Sally I took them because I'm weak because I'm pathetic because I'm a man and I couldn't resist touching something that had been so close to you really I'm so sorry I can't believe you of all people would come into my house and do something so damn swell he is unaware of course of the dangers that are going on Beyond those stars but she does and she's looking at things shooting stars and asteroids and I'm wondering what are what are those like all of this thing these things happening out there and what could what's stopping them from coming here these conflicts what's stopping somebody from throwing a rock at us throwing them at each other and whether they're literal or metaphorical the point is still made and she's not sure and we leave her there unsure of the safety of the world I read it as I read it like her Expressions as being
odly calm or soothed by his naivity the fact that he's been sheltered from this as much as he has been did you get that feeling no I looked at it more as she was still caught up within herself and who knows where this will go for her because this was a much much more of a step back when it comes to Chris Jen in an episode this is more her being an observer of the other plot going on and you were commenting that the balance of the stories was has been a little bit out of whack like there hasn't been enough time for things to breathe this episode definitely takes that time more where yes we have multiple plots but the other ones are significantly lesser than what is happening with Holden and the crew on the yes they have an A and C plot but they aren't trying to make all of them even it's like no this is the a this is the B and the C gets the left over time we do have a b plot with Miller he is still on the case and hasn't even noticed the half loocks missing oh my Lord that was hilarious he keeps mentioning like I'm sure havoc's just having a fun time unreachable at the moment havlock oh wait now it's bit inconvenient uh he's alive havlock is alive by the way I I'm shocked I was more confused that he still wasn't impaled on the on the wall I guess he fell down at some point and went went into the trash and I love that nobody noticed him for ages like he was just laying there maybe he was I can't believe he [ __ ] lives he's going to be a lot he's going to be in the show more that means like he there going to he can't just die he's going to be alive now we we don't we don't know we don't know we don't know there's never been a character I would describe as an NPC More Than This loser he's such a [ __ ] loser and even the show knows bother to finish the point then I was going to make cuz he doesn't deserve it I like that no one cares at this stage like he just doesn't deserve anything and I want to make this observation we've had a problem with Miller and his storyline and I actually rather enjoyed it in terms of the tone yeah Miller in this I enjoyed it in terms of the vibe the atmosphere and the tone I'm not really thinking much about the story itself the clues the Intrigue and what it's building towards but rather the character emphasis in just hanging out and I think that's greatly improved in this one because Miller is on his own and I think he works better that way just well he also thinks that he doesn't want he's the kind that doesn't want a partner having him be this uh ghostlike figure that uh goes through the crowds and goes into these dens and finds things knows exactly how everything on this station works and yet can still be surprised and still be uh confounded and I also think he has a marvelous Dynamic and relationship with the woman with with his other partner the one that was his boss his intermediate boss like yes and obviously his previous manager previous girlfriend figure those two actors have a great report with one another but I think that Dynamic is far better to watch not only on the they had were former lovers or Flame or whatever the case may be but the simple fact of he is this kooky strange Maverick and she's there with the arms folded going come on Miller that is far better to me than the straight laced younger boy with the puppy dog eyes privileged privileged the guy who needs explained to him she doesn't need things explained to her in fact she does the explaining to Miller I a surrogate Ryan no you always love those characters what did you think of Miller in this episode we've been harsh but uh I mean what did you think of just him on his own and him in relationship without with somebody else other than havlock
uh I don't know it his characterization felt a little bit off in this episode cuz we didn't see his feet much I thought you were actually going to make the genuine critique that they are playing him more for comedy in this episode yeah they are but I had to do the feet joke Thomas Jane dude hates wearing shoes dude hates wearing shoes um yeah like they are playing up different parts of his character it didn't feel inconsistent to me but it was a seeing him in a different light like without have luck there he's more doing like he's still sort of trying to balance what he's meant to be doing and still pursuing this other case but also again he just kind of gives up on doing his actual job I think halfway through the episode but he had an actual job to [Music] do but I agree with you I think he is different I would say he's confident and more competent as a character yeah it's just like oh yeah this is a dude that would rise up to this kind of rank and have these kind of wheeling and dealings there's also a lot more wordless uh Exposition given to us or visual storytelling because Thomas Jane isn't having to make all of these quippy comments to bad guys or to his AIDS there are just sequences where he's walking through this house or this area with all of these junkies and freaks and he's just giving these looks and we're getting so much atmosphere just from him walking through there in his nice outfit and we can make the observations of what this kind of culture is that inhabits this world now I wrote in my notes oh we've got cyberpunk style things here and we do get information of that further expanded upon by him talking to people but a large like large swats of it I could gather through him just looking at it rather than him saying what it is loud um SL the whole slingshot competition sort of thing it's not explained it just happens it just happens and we see a visual that kind of helps you figure it out but you're not sure of the specifics CU you don't need to know it's like oh they're doing something dangerous and it is likely going to kill this dude and they're betting on it the value of human life is so low that it's worth betting on and when he does die they all cheer and celebrate and have a laugh about it and Miller discovers that um this body he's found that was also one of the potential uh hookups for Julie ma uh is not the identity that comes up when they are looking at it and so he discovers that this guy has a lot of cyber technology within him that is highend high grade and can be used for like not just crime syndicate stuff but even military grade it seems or at least um secret Ops level and so we are learning that there's some great uh conspiracy here like the the the the magnitude of this is is expanding more and that is great stuff I will admit that uh kind of um cyberpunk or cyborg like body modifications e stuff not your Jim I I get overwhelmed by that in fiction because I I think it kind of relates to me weirdly with fantasy where oh no I've got to learn a bunch of rules I've got to Lear and not just that but also and this is a problem that I do have with other pieces of cyer I've got to learn a lot of jargon see I thought you were going to go with the fact that it can just be uh either a McGuffin or a saveal like oh no we have this piece of tech that does this just stick this needle into his leg and you can pull the magical thing out yeah and then it'll give you all the answers you seek yeah if he has a spoofer then he's probably got a bunch of other shady [ __ ] in him standard inner ear mic spinal stabilizer pancreatic pump runof-the-mill the
sedentary ha he's got a memory Crypt in his Cal let's talk about the the crew uh they've been captured and now they've been separated with Holden being taken to the Command Deck but we are still with the rest of them we're still with Alex and Amos and shed and and Naomi well that's shed and Naomi and well yeah let's just talk about it the visual that I have remembered from the expanse is shed's head getting blown off and in the zero g the blood going out and then when they do seal up that vacuum the blood just pour no before the gravity comes back on congealing into a bowl above his head where his should be that's an image you don't forget like that's one of those you don't forget it and yes I did remember it was shed but I still felt like surprised by it because I thought he was a very enjoyable character I like that actor a lot he's very fun he's a good actor too I've seen him in a bunch of things it's confronting in a way that's very interesting ever since the beginning because we've started with so many characters you've got to cut them down I'm like there's pruning that's going to happen that's just a fact and what characters have they already started to clip their wings they already did a fake out death with shed so you could believe that they wouldn't actually kill him because they already teased us with a death for him in the second episode but you were still surprised when this happened you have this moment the brutality of it because it's like you have no idea where it's come from like you know that there's fighting going on but you're not prepared for it to reach them because you don't have a solid sense of the geography of the ship to know that okay they're there and the weapons are this strong so it can shoot through and it is that thing of its just sheer dumb luck that it went through him right head shot lucky we're also not used to as often in science fiction to have artillery and bullets be the thing that fire through ships usually it's lasers usually it's missiles but not shells in this way not bullets in this so when you do see that they basic Al make several million little holes in this ship it really does give you the the the the sense of fear of space combat because it's not energy weapons it's not just a bomb going off in one portion of the ship it is you can make a danger tangible you can riddle a ship full of holes and that in itself can do all the damage you need because there's so many things to patch up yeah and you can see how many layers of the ship goes through yeah but it's also like well you don't have to worry about killing everybody if you destroy the ship cuz they can't survive if you ruin it if you ruin it structural Integrity enough with just uh a death of a Thousand Cuts that will do it I really enjoyed the sequence where they where Naomi and Amos and Alex had to in zero G fix the holes in the in their cell and that you they had little emergency things with uh panels of metal and that they could nail and weld those on I thought that was a really well uh put together scene one of the best directed moments we've had in episodes so far I've also not really seen a lot of that in TV shows either where we are now in a an Emergency crisis and we're in zero g and we're actually having to to uh not only deal with it but you can tell that the creative team in the show have thought about how in the world they would have to be safety precautions in mind for a moment like this to H if it happened if you're on a military ship which we are on you would imagine there would be some kind of protocol some kind of training or some kind of uh you know ability to patch these things as they go on and that there was demonstrated in this sequence with just them floating which could be a silly looking image but it's powerful nonetheless here them floating and passing each other tools that's all you needed they didn't need to set up anything more they didn't need to overex exlain it no and it's a nice sort of Step Back From the amount that they had to do when they were all Gathering the batteries on the little shuttle that they were on yeah the shuttle um a couple of episodes ago now we know how they work we know that they work together we know that they can get stuff done and it's just like okay we've got the tools we know what needs to be done the show doesn't have to go over that more and these people that are here still have their conflicts that they had in the previous episode and the beginning of this one but there's no time for that now so there's no time to punch Alex in the face because he's a little martian com first survival logic logic comes first here it's logical that we need to do this this and this instead of yelling at each other or making forced drama I just really want to praise something about uh the expans I was thinking about this I know we're only four episodes in and this may change but I just want to say nonetheless when it comes to Amos as a character he is for for lack of the better better term he's the crazy one right like he's a sociopath he's emotionally detached he's he he goes to violence really quickly he's big intimidating he's he can you he can easily come across as unstable and often times in media that means he's the hurdle and or the maker of drama in a story uh look for examp look to for example say uh doo in far escape the first season or two of Farscape is infuriating because 90% of the plots are Dogo is an [ __ ] he yes angry emotionally unstable crazy one causes some drama and or we have to work around them but Amos they have not done that at all because even though he he has some of these things within him that doesn't mean that he isn't like that doesn't mean he's stupid or incompetent or incompetent and he can still be a valuable member of the crew cuz I was looking at this thinking there's another episode where he just punches Alex out to knock him out instead right because he's the violent guy and he's the uh emotionally disturbed one stives for later right and it's just or you have a moment where oh no Amos has [ __ ] something up because he's just a brute no they don't disrespect the character like that just because uh it would be convenience just because conventionally speaking when you have a person with all of these traits it makes feel easy to write drama they don't do that and I just really wanted to highlight that I want to say thank you you know for helping me all those times you did you're a good person we learned that Alex his background at least according to him was he was just a transport pilot guy basically he was like a little bus driver a glorified glorified bus driver I love that line he's a loser basically and whenever they needed him to do something he he just would go ah wasn't that qualified like I can drive a ship but I don't I'm not a soldier I don't know I don't know what to do but I I like the like it makes sense like I was theor I was theorizing what he might have done and how that might play into it I did not think that it would be underwhelming but I kind of love it because it makes so much sense that in a highly militaristic Society like Mars you can have somebody who served for 20 years is just driving people just driving and we learned little bits about how much practicality Matters To Mars not just for survival sake but it's a psyche and so him just being a guy who just flies to and from places uh is is valuable like that's practical we need that but again this act is great because he manages to show us that the in the previous episode that that attitude he was putting on that's Alex the character puffing out his chest me being Mr I'm a tough guy but as soon as truth comes out he goes back to that almost nebish coward not cowardly but nervous and uh uh all over the place guy that we've known from the previous episodes and I just thought that was uh truly delightful when we get to the moment where they have to knock somebody out because we've got to worry about oxygen intake uh we need Naomi because she's the engineer and she knows how to get out of this place and uh Amos you're you're you you can go out but what was the rationale why they had to take Alex out do you remember because he wouldn't be able to carry Amos that Amos can carry him I'm just Amos may as well have been flexing his muscles going I'm a big boy I can carry you you're a little boy I did like the look also I you're weak Martian you're weak Martian I loved look on Alex's face showing that of you're right but that mixed with [ __ ] you like I'm not a little guy just but you are in comparison to this this massive massive Beast of a guy while they are surviving and making the best of a bad situation Holden is with the command deck he is still being told to recant his statement uh by the captain in he's eventually strapped in because this ship that is stalking them is coming closer and it is disregarding any forms of communication we even get to see the stealth ship in space a little bit more up close and personal and it separates off bits of itself to make little fighters to make breaching pods Mothership situation mm and uh we we get to have a lot of uh hold being the protagonist man and he's the guy that they should listen to because he knows what this is cuz this is the ship he encountered previously and they're dismissing him because he's just a filthy earther guy who put them in a lot of hot water so why should we listen to him he stinks uh but so we get a little bit of that tension during all of the battle sequence of somebody let Holden out of his chair and just let him get his piece across him let him command and so I want to throw it over to you Rachel uh what do you think about Holden in this episode and could you expand a bit more on what he is getting up to as well um well he's just constantly being right and being ignored which I found a bit boring because this is was like well that I know they're not going to listen to him and I know that this is gearing up for a big battle where I'm going to imagine everybody's going to die except our original crew yeah which is what happens like you got one Martian the interrogator he survives no he yeah he's with them on the ship at the very end no but I think he dies no I think he's still alive I thought he died at the end no no I think he's just looking at the ship being blown up the the the ship and he's like I wish no I thought he was just like I wish I could have seen it and then dies no I think you know what just pass out cuz he was wounded he was I'm keeping maybe it was another fake out I don't know I'm on team he's still alive I would I I would like it I would appreciate it like that actor he's great oh he's a great actor by the way I looked him up and I saw oh he's he was in C this and this he was great Far Cry 5 as the lead antagonist the father great actor um so I I would like it if he was still around but I took it as he he died um but it's just like well nobody's going to listen to Holden and I just like I don't feel sorry for you Holden because you're an [ __ ] and you will continue to be an [ __ ] and you can be an [ __ ] and be right continue to do that um that's but a part of it is that he's right by chance and I don't like how they're framing that because they're not really acknowledging it it's just like he is protagonist man thus he is right with all of his estimations and Subs sub yeah subs and he's also just happened to be in the right place at the right time as you do and I stra him in I feel it's calculating with Holden because a little too much and that's where the protagonist Mani that's suspicious yeah but the the problem with him though is too often I don't feel like he's a person but rather a character with a specific purpose in mind and the way and certain things that WR the writers have to do to twist that because they are aware he's the protagonist man character they are the they are aware that he can come across as too much of a virtuous no at all so they try and add murkiness and dirt on him we've said it before he pretends to be a cynic but he has a heart of gold and in this at every T every time he does the uh the thing you're talking about they add some other dickish thing like he runs away and leaves the Martians behind so he can go get his friends like they do go out of their way to make sure that Holden is also an [ __ ] and like in text an [ __ ] not just we find they don't want to make him too clean too perfect so they want to add a little bit of grime to him but to me it feels like it's like oh that's Grime on the outside that it will easily wipe away it's not adding any texture to the character he still comes across to me as some someone you read about in summary of what a character is rather than someone who is real and I believe in and I want to follow in throughout this entire story he is getting all of this information from the Martians and eventually teams up with them and specifically this one Martian guy and I kept asking throughout all of it why are they even talking to him he has nothing to offer them at a certain point and I don't mean that in just terms of information but just personality-wise he's not endearing enough for me to believe that this guy would pour his heart out to him it only comes across that way like it comes across that he pours his heart out to Holden because Holden is the audience and it's so we can learn Martian ideology Martian law and Martian worldbuilding stuff which I did love and I loved all that dialogue but I kept I just kept looking at it going why is this person even giving this to Holden if it was Amos if it was Naomi oh if it was Naomi I would believe it especially because this interrogator guy had far more of a a a peculiar and much more electrifying Dynamic and relationship with the mean the previous one here he's just talking to Holden because well Holden's our lead character and he needs to be told things and Holden needs to nod and Holden needs to learn this information so it can be valuable later I'm sorry I really am but I won't testify to anything unless you help me get my friends off this ship shut up I want to speak to him yes sir what do you think about the the way that the expanse handles action both in spaceship battle ways but also the shooty shooty people with guns running around hallways what do you think of it I think it's all right like I'm struggling with it a little bit because I I do like the balance and I think the shooty shooty stuff is choreographed really well but I still I'm not invested in the fates of the characters because each time I'm walking into a scene I kind of know where it's going and I'm not invested in the journey so it's like okay this is this and this and this thing are going to happen and oh wow they do and it looks cool while it's happening yeah Holden did [ __ ] them all over just like they said that's why shed's death and the others surviving in the cell is far more thrilling to watch when it comes to the action and the survival because they were willing to kill off one of the characters and we didn't necessarily expect it you could have but still nonetheless they took away a likable presence and in a very nihilistic way they blew his head off and the blood got sucked into space and when people looked his dead body they just went ah [ __ ] and then they moved on and that there was better when it comes to the ACT and the consequences of it than what Holden and the others get up to cuz it's a bunch of martians you don't know and they all get picked off one by one most of which we don't even see on the screen or if we do it doesn't register here's my critique of the action specifically the space battle action and this I will blame partially on Battle Star Galactica but it's still it's it's more so here but can we pull the camera back just pull the camera back I'd like to see what's going on because I can make out images but I'm not seeing what's happening it's so close this ship is doing this thing and this ship is doing this thing but their relationship to each other I not even just that I want them to pull the camera back so I can get more of a visual of what the thing is on the screen I can make it out enough but I I just pull it back I feel like since battl Star Galactica they've wanted to go for that the gritty realism thing where in space it looks like a news camera footage and they zoom in and everything's all shaking close and we have the camera strapped to the ship itself as it flies around and that has its place and purpose and it can be used very well but in this episode I just kept wanting them not to show me the out of space shooty stuff because every time they did it actually pulled me out when we were on the ship and were getting hit and bullets were going through and people were running around with guns I felt the intensity I felt like this spaceship was getting bombarded but every time we cut to outside I kept thinking oh it's some weird dark CGI shot that they don't want to show me fully because for whatever reason for dramatic sake or they want to hide the imperfections of their CG don't know but nonetheless it didn't draw me in it took me out we learn a lot about uh what are some of the things that you like to hear about I liked hearing from a martian what they they've been um sort of and not like talking about alluding to that sense of Martian work together the that so many of them want to achieve the goal of making Mars as livable as Earth basically and how they're so determined to make that happen and the frustration that they have with Earth and that resentment being played out in conversations I found really interesting because it helps explain what led them to be so militaristic and seeing the beliefs behind the facade I found really cool I agree we find out that they do live on in domes and they don't have the beautiful blue sky they don't even know what oceans look like they've never seen an ocean in real life many of them a body of water it's a dream and and that was wonderful here and you basically touched upon all the points that I liked as well but when it comes to hardships and living through the tough times and how that can be a uh almost a cultural identifier and motivator we've actually seen that happen with a lot of uh military Powers think of Germany obviously post World War I into World War II there was that definite sense right of we've gone through the hardships of being poor and broken and this war has devastated us and now through that hardship and we identify that as a a character building thing we will rise and we will get what is ours and we've also seen that with Russia we've also seen that with China like throughout all of history we've seen this repeat and so when we look at Mars we can look at them and say I understand why they're like that I actually felt for him when he said that he wished he could see the ocean and at the end when he referenced that line again I I liked it and I've said to you in the past even though they have gone about it in a very aggressive way I've related to the Martians a lot during this show I've kept writing in my notes they're right they've got a point they're Justified and this episode gave me a deeper appreciation of all those things whilst also making me underline in my notes the Troublesome aspects to the things that I also find to be the endearing things about them as well it's like when resilience turns bitter we are nothing like you the only thing ber is care about is government handouts free food free water free drugs so that you can forget the aimless lives you lead you're shortsighted and selfish and it will destroy you it was such a great ending to to get Alex in that ship getting it into gear oh I sure hope I know how to drive this thing and just blast his way out of there I just I was thrilled by that because Alex is definitely one of my favorite characters and to see him uh be the Savior savior figure in this at the like just R help them ride out of out of hell I was just smiling from ear to ear I was just so happy and again I'll pass it over to you but uh we talk about in Star Trek discovery how often times we get frustrated that the one character is always there to save the day and we have problems with Holden but at least that isn't the problem we have right no no we don't we don't have that issue with the show either comes in and saves the day but it isn't like it's because he's magic and he's all powerful like I said before they are trying to grunge him up a little bit and there are negative consequences for his decisions like he may save his crew but now he may have accidentally started an a galactic war and same like thing again like they escape but at what cost I think what pushes it over the line for me when it comes to Holden and this sequence here is you can imagine that if there wasn't Amos or Naomi or Alex there the day would be lost yeah it doesn't entire like it's not him and nobody else it's that's them working together as a team and all of their individual traits work working together to make a collective effort that succeeds and the fact that shed isn't there to help patch anyone El is already a point of worry we already see how the loss of one of them has already impacted the rest and that's where Star Trek Discovery fails oh what happens if if uh aera isn't uh able to help Michael with the mission that doesn't matter Michael just win it anyway what happens if stamitz gets impaled with the piece of metal and is incapacitated and can't fly the ship I don't know Michael will figure a way out for the ship to fly it always goes back to that in Discovery and in quite a few shows recent times and the expansi for all the problems we have with Holden uh that isn't the one that we have it's just he is a little bit too lame of a character but they aren't making it so that every episode turns back to him being right and him being the best one and so we end an episode where we don't know the what what's going to happen next we don't know the fate of our characters where they're going to go to and if they're going to be chased down by the ship even more but I'm excited to find out they're in danger they're going to stay in danger CQB on our rating scale yum being bad and yum yum being good what would you rate this episode yum yum yum yum I I give it a yum yum as well yum yum like I said I wasn't as enamored by it as the previous episode but after sitting down and talking about it with you it's solid I'm more excited about it than I was when I finished watching it as I said up top the Mormon stuff I find to be the most most intriguing and even getting that here on the Pod with you has got me even more keen to see them than just when I was watching it a moment ago so this is definitely one that grows on me uh more so so I'm Keen to find out what we'll be watching next time now we we are just going to read the the title we don't know anything else we can make some logical predictions on what's going to happen next or predictions on anything down the P it's called back to the butcher I've got a prediction uh a prediction for the show first and then one for the next episode so can I go with the show first hit me with it Chris Jen made a real big Point of Rocks being thrown at them and I do wonder if that's a piece of foreshadowing to Earth or Mars or somebody out there getting bombarded Mass driver style like in Babylon 5 yeah they made such a point of that that I I am curious to see if that will pay off down the line and we can have a moment of going oh her concerns were Val is that going to be um is that going to be literal yeah and so that's my prediction and then my next one sadly for the next episode this is a sad prediction but I think a large portion of it is going to be Miller having to worry about the the them finding havlock and him being stabbed through and Miller probably having to take revenge and or find the per per who did that to havlock and I don't want that and we're going to probably see uh wi Wiggy AKA Lieutenant Nelson from Discovery again mourning over the fact that the love of her life has been imp and her being like you can't trust our culture I'm worried that that's going to be the case okay that's my predic I don't know about the rest of them but that's my prediction for next episode so um this one was another episode that had a title drop so I think it's going to be the same next week I think it's going to be related to some
story that one of the characters tells the title yeah I think that's what's going to be the tie in with the title uh in terms of focus I agree that it's probably going to be a bit more Miller Centric with probably Holden in the B Spot and Christian again in the C plot mhm but I think we're going to get more Christian next episode I hope than this episode and I
think I want more Brian George that's just personal preference but we got a bit of him this episode so I don't think we will and I'll be sad um there's one other thing which is more something that I hope that they touch on uh more than a
prediction um which is like getting more into Miller's relationship with the boss SLX lover yeah I want to know more about them I I just want to say uh halton's plot it would be weird for them to repeat the last last two plots he had which is survive in a tin can floating in space and or survive being shot at from a spaceship so I don't know what they're going to do with him though maybe he'll meet up with the OPA in space or maybe even the Mormons right they set the Mormons up in this episode and we know they're floating around in a similar area I'm not too sure I I just don't know what they're going to do because it would be peculiar if they did repeat one of those two things we've just seen the go through would be a bit dull thank you all so much for listening to us make our way through the expans we're exploring it we're going through it for the first time through and you can find us on your social medias of choice we can be found under yum yum pod or yum yum podcast we post regularly you can email us over at yum yumod gmail.com if you are not following us on patreon or supporting us on there it would be greatly appreciated if you could it would be mean a lot to us but also you get a lot in return you can hear our thoughts on the expanse much earlier than when it comes out here on the Main feed cuz this is for our patrons first so if you want to skip forward and hear next time's episode right now you can you also get to be a part of a group Discord when you join our patreon and so you can interact with so many other people we have a wonderful little community right now many people making jokes and Jabs about the things that we've been talking about here when it comes to the expanse so thank you all so much for tuning in and listening and giving us your time it means so much to me means so much to you too right Rachel yes and yes it this episode uh I I cheated and I I looked through the cast and I did not note down the the the uh the guy who worked for the OPA the the the preaching guy guy with the microphone he wasn't here in this episode but I did go back to the previous episode when he wasn't it and I've learned what his name is do you want to know his name yes he has a name his name is gaun belter that's his name that's he's just that's his title gaunt belter cuz apparently tell me this Rachel am I crazy does he even look gaunt to you would you describe that actor as a man that you would go now that's a gaunt looking guy the guy who says dusters in that nice thick accent he's not like a beefy dude but he's not g like I feel like I look I feel like I'm more gaunt than he is he does look a bit malish with like the makeup that they put on him but and also is a
ginger see you then well
wa