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We are just your average married couple who love watching and talking about science-fiction television. The Expanse is the series we’re talking about and one we’re watching through for the first time! Listen to us break down episodes of The Expanse and see if it’s as good as everyone says it is. Exploring The Expanse is released to our Patreon first and so if you want to hear more of our discussions then come over and support the podcast.
This week we’re exploring The Expanse episode “The Big Empty”
It’s time to unleash the blue goo!
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[Music] hello Rachel hello Ryan how are you okay how are you feeling weighed down by this damn gravity you should throw me in a tank of water and then we'll have a real conversation uh where I sound all evil and awesome at the same time so uh what are we doing Rachel why are we here why is there a microphone in front of my face and why do I have some notes next to me cuz we're doing a podcast and this particular podcast is originally made for our patrons yes patreon first and then Main feed where we uh uh we're going through something different yes and it is is it St Trek Discovery no it's completely new to both of us new to both of us I don't trust that notion at all from my rewatch science fiction TV podcast going through a show freshh new full disclosure I have seen the first six episodes of what we're talking about when they first came out but I remember almost nothing about them we are talking about the Sci-Fi series The expand and so if you are familiar with the series or you're wanting to join us uh for the first time hearing about the expans if you've never seen it before welcome if you've seen it before welcome but don't spoil stuff for us we don't want to know we're we're going in blind we're going to stumble our way through we're going to figure out the details as they unfold and emerge in front of in front of us it's a it's an exciting time for yum yum podcast the only podcast cast in all of the dimensions to have covered uh Babylon 5 space above and beyond uh Star Trek Discovery and now the expanse with the Yum Yum perspective where we talk about yum yum and yum yum is an Infamous moment from Star Trek discovery that inspired us to podcast and so we look at a given thing and say now does that have yum yum and we rate it at the end end of the episode of our discussions if the thing had yum which is bad or yum yum which is good and for the expans we having a little bit of a a different tact here where uh I want to ask you Rachel in this particular episode the second one of the entire show who did you find yum yum because when it happened in Discovery who did I find yum yum or who had stop no no who did you find to be yum yum where in Discovery there was a little bit of a sexual connotation with that so who here did you look at and wanted to lick your lips throw your hair back and say yum yum about hm because uh uh I don't know there was a few there was a few uh sexy people here my Contender is uh Naomi uh the the the the chick that uh was really the the lead of Holden's plot uh she's sexy she's fun she told Holden that he's an insignificant little worm and that he should stay in his place and I found that incredibly yum yum she was so close to licking her lips and and just saying Yum Yum to him as he was crying about his ex his dead girlfriend or when she's like do you need an invitation when they're Gathering all of the batteries and crap I can imagine her being like yum yum I'm sorry does anyone need a backrop first it is time to to hear about what the particular episode we watched was happening what happened in it Rachel do we know what happened in it do you even remember the title of it because on Big Empty oh good because on our Blu-ray it only calls it episode two very uh uh uh corporate Blu-ray where every time you select an episode it makes a very disheartening little click sound that is a little bit too quiet but a little bit too much like you've hit a stone instead of something mechanical which you would expect but uh The Big Empty episode 2 the IMDb summary goes as such Holden and crew are trapped in a badly damaged shuttle on series Miller uncovers clues about Julie Ma on Earth Christian avasara uh questions a terrorist um I'm hoping I'm getting the name right still haven't heard anyone say her last name that's just me reading it aa salara aa Sal well hopefully hopefully we'll find out and hopefully we'll we'll pin it down as somebody with a complicated last name myself I know that seeing a name written down and then making them pronounce it can really throw people for a loop it's slinsky people when you look read the description you may be wondering whoa three eyes in that last name how do I pronounce them all don't stress it don't stress it so let's uh hear your thoughts Rachel quick fire thoughts on The Big Empty uh what did you
think that's that's my main one just the plot the themes
okay and uh World building yeah I love your quickfire thoughts where it's just little noises my my feel feelings on it is a solid blue I'm going to go with colors for mine now I thought this was an improvement from the previous episode I got a uh much more clear understanding of a structure for an expanse episode in terms of telling stories and plots the first one was very much about laying down the foundation rather than telling stories this one did tell stories and uh it managed to interconnect them in certain ways that I got excited about if this is going to be something that continues on and and expands and grows over the course of the series but I did enjoy it a lot more I had a I had a far more uh enthralling time than you did so what do you think was an element that was holding you back I just didn't care I just didn't care and I think a large problem that I had with this episode is that it's not an episode okay it's an actm and it didn't have a clear plot of its own where it went through an arc and we moved a little bit forward in the overall story but something clearly happened and something clearly changed it's just like a lot of the things that happened in this could have easily happened in a much shorter amount of time and it didn't feel like any of our characters are moved in any way it's just like oh okay so detective guy didn't kill a dude okay Holden's not dead yet but they're captured okay and the terrorists died yeah on earth the earth the earth captured like those three things taking up all of this time and you're not making me care about these characters M it feels like you're telling me that these characters are really important cuz we're spending so much time with them guys like come on they're at the center of all of these gigantic plots and I'm like cool still don't give a [ __ ] I am so Keen to discuss this with you because I agree with your point about not caring about the characters that much I think I like them and warmed them more than you are I found that this episode fleshed out the crew that Holden is with a lot more and so I do think they have pushed those people forward but the ones that we have already met Holden uh you know uh Christian and and Miller are fairly the same as they were and that's okay enough in my book but I do agree I'm not uh chomping at the bit for all of these characters like I am with some other Sci-Fi series I don't want to know more about them I'm not interested enough to go o I want to see what this person does next I wonder what they would do in this situation or think about this but Miller let him go that was unexpected I am on the complete opposite I'm on the I was being snarky I'm on the complete opposite end though of uh the conversation when it comes to this not being an episode I actually think this had with especially Holden's plot on Surviving the ship a classic Sci-fi he is a story with a beginning middle and end and it ends in a way where now that that's completed there is something else for them to solve and the other two stories and the other two stories that are satellites around this particular one is what you're talking about where they're giving you little breadcrumbs that we can feed upon during the seasons to come but I actually liked The Big Empty a lot more than that first episode because at the heart of it we had a classic science fictiony plot of here's a rag tag crew of people people who have varying degrees of getting on and varying degrees of Competency when in a survival situation and they have to fend for themselves and and and and get it all happening before the time runs out before somebody dies and I found that to be far more captivating now I I want to make this clear it isn't the the the the most grandiose thing I've ever seen it's not even the best example of this I have ever seen but I found it to be far more more of an enriching viewing experience than than you clearly did and than I did the previous one so to me this is a step in the right direction but I can tell that you and I have uh have uh diff those differing views you're and arur I don't even know where you're from we're going to be space trash in a few hours and you want to start a friendship you don't think we're going to make it what are you doing up here Naomi told me to so I am as far as I'm concerned she's the cap now I've got some updates on some actors I've got some actor updates because us being the Yum Yum podcast uh we haven't talked about it we we we actually skipped it in the first episode so in the first episode The Man Who Lost His arm was Bryce from uh Discovery yeah and do you know who the other Discovery actor performer is who's in the show they were in the first episode and this one they're not one of the main characters they're like him a secondary like minor player wait in Discovery or in this from Discovery that's in this okay so of course taka from Discovery is here now but there's this other performer who uh we have many many comments about in season 4 of discovery that is uh here in the expans in these first two episodes not Wiggy is it oh you go oh nson wig herself wig Wiggy herself is here do you know who she is do you know who she is you may not recognize it cuz she's not blonde here and doesn't have a big sweaty wig shoved on her head she's the sex worker that uh we uh met when Holden was helping her after she had killed a client in self-defense probably and this episode she's the one that meets up with havlock when he's got the the cactus I saw her and I said your face looks familiar but why can't I recognize you if only you were blonde and I would know that's Nelson immediately from Discovery If Only They shoved her sweaty wig on her head um I did I only picked that because of the hint about we had a lot to say about her during season 4 that's the only that hint was good enough I had to do my due diligence as a podcaster to point to actors that we have seen in previous shows and at least acknowledge that they exist in the show we're covering and we we have so many funny comments about how modern science fiction film like modern shows in general film in Canada so you get a lot of these faces that you are now familiar with as these Canadian character actors and back in the day back the '90s when they would film in La you would always see these you know Wonderful car character actors that we always love to see in every single episode of a TNG thing like hey Ray Wise is here or William Morgan Shepard is here or so on and so forth now we have all of these Canadian people and I just like it's exciting to me that uh I'm getting to look at them and go oh I I have seen you in this this and this it's it's cool it's like whenever something is filmed here in Australia and you go up yeah you can tell cuz I got that actor and that actor and that one's from home and away and that one's from Neighbors I I I get a thrill out of that we're still in the early days of living in the uh Universe of this series so I think it is good to just uh quickly uh go over some of the World building and pieces of tech and culture that we're picking up and things that we liked or didn't like so for you what was some some of those elements that leapt out to you here in The Big Empty or things that were expanded upon more that you you got your interest I guess the fact that the lady on earth is accountable to No One somehow I liked them acknowledging that she has this much power but she's not accountable to anybody she wasn't elected into the position yeah like she doesn't have to fight for her position seems like is some kind of military influence there when you looked at the picture of her family you saw her I I assume it's her son who's a soldier and you looked at I think I would assume her dad and he also looked like a high ranking military person or somebody with that aura of power to them so it's not directly said but you you get that yeah you get that Vibe you get the inking which is also why maybe she's more even more suspicious of Mars and she has uh for someone who's a a cushy politician this is this is actually a great J position between her and her her boss the the guy who's tker from Discovery he's clearly a politician but she's someone who has a military background or some kind of uh world view that looks at things from uh that perspective and so them having a conversation together uh kind of underlines that without actually saying it explicitly just her attitude gives us enough where we can pick those things up anything else when it comes to the World building or things that they're filling in Tech lingo culture I liked getting to see the tank because they referred to it uh last episode but actually getting to see it in action I even forgot that they mentioned the tank but it answered a question that I had which is when they brought him out uh in the previous one he was like fully wet and I and I I didn't understand why that was uh I thought maybe there were water boarding him or some other forms of torture but see my brain just that it was a water tank I didn't I initially see that's the thing I didn't connect those dots because there was just so much information being thrown at me uh in that first episode that not everything's going to immediately soak into my brain but that's why we're here we're we're we're looking at and going okay they've shown me the tank and then I can look back and go oh yes of course it adds up yes um I like the idea of them expanding the corruption on series as well yeah it goes from the top to the bottom we've got crime gangs yeah and like the way that they let the organized crime gangs do their thing there's an understanding in a certain way um um and then the fact that they're pissed that these people have given up and [ __ ] off and now these dumb asses are taking over and [ __ ] [ __ ] up cuz they don't know the rules I really appreciated how uh physical and almost analog the technology is buttons and levers and things that you that are tactile I am so sick and tired and it's it's a personal pet peeve of mine and science fiction of the holog screen doors in this episode right you got excited by doors I look I've got a whole monologue I can give you about the doors and I love the doors but what I'm saying is I am sick and [ __ ] tired of watching these sci-fi shows where you see an actor wiggling their hands in the ear over some CGI hologram insert nonsense it always takes me out I do not that's just one of those science fiction things that I don't believe in I I I see that and I just don't see the practicality of it uh and here they they really tactile there's knobs there's buttons there's levers there's things that people are holding and they're real props they're real things and I just get a a real like I'm salivating over that because it's also an element of uh set design and and just props that make me want to live in the world like I want to own their little phones like I want to uh own that piece of furniture that they have or like this thing but when you get to CG heavy and hology stuff I I I just disconnect from that so easily I did get a I did get an absolute I I I yelled and screamed about the doors happening because there's this moment where Miller's on the case he's going to Julie Ma's apartment and there's a typical science fiction door it looks like a typical sci-fi door and I wholeheartedly expected it to do the Sci-Fi thing of it slides open and closed I because it looked like that and he had to open it with his phone thing and he was hacking it and there was electronic locks and everything but then it just opened like a normal door does like a normal house door that I own where it just swings on hinges and I I I I absolutely was screaming with joy at that because I always think about with these futuristic sliding doors in in in homes how annoying it would be to have them jam on you and just all the inconveniences that would follow from the mechanical door that slides remember how annoying it was at our last house when the bathroom door got jammed yes now I can't imagine that with one of these doors yeah and so I the typical sci-fi doors the typical sci-fi doors but they had their own version of futuristic doors that I can see being an evolution and probably doors that people have in real life right now yeah like those kind of locks and not that far off some of the stuff that you can get replay my last messages my last messages tried to give you the best of all worlds and you choose to live like some filthy handmade among the Riff Raff of the solar system I gravitated towards the Holden plot in this one as well because of the use of language the colloquialisms the slang that the crew is using with one another where it wasn't drawing attention to itself it was drawing it enough but not in a way where I either got annoyed by it noticed it to an aggressive degree or rolled my eyes this isn't using the battl Star Galactica or Farscape thing where they've just got made up swears in there no frag here no frag no Frack no FR but they are terms that have just Degrees of Separation from where we are now where the guy says what are you out of the tree and it's like I know what he's saying by that is just how I would say it is different like the the essence of sentiment you get the sentiment but it is just it is just washed away from where we are and I I think that lines up with just how a lot of slang and lingo goes in time like how many slang terms did we use when we were like 12 that have now evolved into something different yet we can look at that lingo they use now and go oh yes I used to say it but like this yeah I I I really endeared me to the crew because it felt uh again lived in honest and and real without having to have forced uh Chemistry Between the character just that guy saying those things to that other guy and no one acknowledging like no one looking at the audience through dialogue and saying Oh you mean this that's why I get annoyed with the Miller plot using outdated what like cont in the story or them using our version of it and then saying their version of it I thought you were also going to mention the St Trek thing of when someone says something that is hard for the audience to grasp another character will for instance it will be like well well yeah REO is a great example he's the character that'll be like what does that mean but what I was going to point to is in in staric especially but by B5 does this too a character will say some really technical thing or some really out there piece of Sayang and another character will go Oh you mean like popping a balloon and then the other character go yes of course they don't they AR doing that that's so corny to me and Si makes my skin craw every time they do it that that oh you mean it's like eating a cake yes it is or it's like popping a balloon you appreciate that though is that what you were saying yeah you do I just maybe I've seen too much sci-fi where it's like it's just a given that you have to do that yeah it's just like audience dumb but the experience they're not doing that thus far with with that side of the story the Sci-Fi Network sci-fi nerds are watching this it's true we can skip that we don't need that here let's talk about Earth first uh because they're fun and it's probably uh uh you know I say a gravitate towards a Holden plot but uh everything that's going on with Earth I find to be 10 times better uh than all the other story lines and characters I just it's catnip to me I'm it's small it doesn't take up too much space but boy you love your corrupt governments in sci-fi I like my space politics what can I say I'm I'm guilty as charged [ __ ] the wheeling and dealings the backstabbings the he said she said the I'm saying one thing you're saying the other thing but we're not acknowledging the lies it also impacted your enjoyment of that or maybe it's a bit of chicken and egg situation your enjoyment of sci-fi and your study of ancient history it's schol yeah I mean they are both there even though I prefer modern history more I just had to study ancient instead but uh what's going on on with with Earth with the UN What's Happening Here Rachel uh she's getting reprimanded for torturing the belter mhm but not really like they're like stop that and she's like I don't want we need answers there are other ways it there are other ways to get answers just torture him in a different way torture him a way where we will not get Fallout for the actions in case it's found out it is performative Justice yeah it's just like okay yeah we we need this done and you are the person to get it done but just walking back a few steps just just a little bit mhm um and then
he he slips out of the sort of restraint when they cuz they're like okay we can't do this on Earth we're going to send him to the Moon oh yes yes the terrorist yes um and then he moves around so that he doesn't get the injections that you need to be able to survive the gForce gfor the the the flight mhm um the space flight so it crushes his bones we saw them successfully do that process in the last episode yes Holden in the gang so and that time they paid more attention to the details and steps and they showed you what it's meant to look like and then the way then we get to see the way that he avoided doing it yeah and since his bone density is different it kills him much faster as well yeah um and I love the the the sort of little intern voice that's on the call like yeah I think he was using it to send a message that yeah it's just some person whose job it is to tell her the bad news and they saying it in a very this is my job way rather than this is a serious thing way I do believe he's doing it to send a message it's you can almost feel them writing while they're saying this as well like they're still doing their work while they're displaying this message like you feel that in the voice like that attitude of it's just so nonchalant this is just another this is a Tuesday for this person like yeah this is whatever I like it's also how little that person values a belter life MH um they're lesser then I do have a question for you please and I'm not sure if I've missed something uhhuh because that's entirely possible cuz I I I do that yeah and this is this is our first go around so I may not know either or may not have been detailed I don't think it's been explained um but what's what's her name on Holden's now boss uh Naomi Naomi and the corer that was captured and killed himself with gravity M I think have the same tattoo around their neck oh you know that's a good thing I I haven't noticed that and I wonder if it's like an a cultural belter thing or is it an Opa thing or is it a Cora thing or is it a Cora thing yeah I'm not you know that's a great question I didn't even think about it I didn't notice no I've noticed there are more people that have been like in frame that have similar tattoos and you know that there's going to be a meaning to or there's some internal logic I'm like it's effort to put those on to people that's a great question I I'm not I don't have the answer right now I want to know more about the OPA because she has this conversation with the terrorist before he does kill himself and just to touch upon the killing himself seen I I actually really liked how that was uh also answering something for me in the previous episode again when the previous one no no discussion was had they just had the people get injected all of this [ __ ] you have to figure it out quickly while all of this stuff's happening but in case you didn't list off the things that were going to happen before four and then they slow down a little bit and have key shots of each of the bits of the process the point is in this episode we get to see why they were doing that because this is what could happen and I appreciate that follow through and making it its own little story line that is a conclusion a conclusion as well for what was going going on with that section on Earth but I want to know more about the Opa we haven't been told too much what I get from them is they are an organization of Freedom Fighters it seems uh people who at least wanting to stir up a conflict people who are wanting to Rattle the Sabers and start a war so that things can get going I'm getting uh at least uh like Ira vibes from them that's that's that's the expanation that I'm getting but I don't know exactly where they're located what their ideology is but from just the little things that Christians said and he said in reply to those gave me that sensation but they're very they're the group that I know the least about and want to balance the scales yeah you you do get this sense that there are an underground force that want to redistribute power in the Galaxy he has such I guess sort of vitrio when he's saying I can't even survive on the planet that my great grandmother's from like the Earth itself is rejecting me but that's not because of any choice that I made or that my relatives made and space itself harmful thing of people like you that reinforce this Power Balance of Earth is the halves Mars is this military sort of dictatorship from what we've been exposed to and then the bels of the have not like like Mars and Earth are closer in power they're worrying about each other's conflicts rather than what's happening on the far because the Bel are it's what you can what you can take and because they can be so easily controlled by controlling their two main basic needs as human beings their air and their water they can still do it successfully and the people on Earth are so far removed from it that they don't either they don't care or they don't think that they can change it or maybe they they end up doing something else or they join the OPA you talk to me through a piece of glass you see my body which can no longer survive on the very planet that bore my great grandmother Earth has created a race of Exiles out in space who have no homes to return to this go an answer I don't mean to make you afraid Madam have I given you the impression that I'm afraid why I really like the UN centered story and it's not just because this this character that we're following is a a certain type that I like it's not just that I really think that this is the most subtle and uh uh uh smart story in the series at the moment because they trust the audience to pick up the pieces and play with them and make them into something of their own so we have a lot of visual storytelling in scenes that give us more such as I the thing I remember in this episode is not these CGI spinning things or Miller on the case it's it's Christian and and and I'm going to keep calling him taka because I've forgotten his name Auditorium and talking to one another talking they're not facing each other but the even though he's higher love that blocking even though he's higher up he's he's more out of focus than she is and I really thought that that there the way that was blocked the way that was filmed was a lot of things in that scene for people who are more media literate to sink their teeth into there's lots of layers of meaning that you can dig into as well as the basic thing of he's higher up and he's behind her yeah and she's in Focus she's got a clear understanding of what's going on the direction there the absolute trust in the script to allow for visuals to uh to amplify the messages being conveyed makes it far more of an experience I want to be living in with the show because it isn't hitting me in the face it isn't pandering to me isn't talking down to me it's so nice because she's talking about how clearly there's a cold war on and the cold war is now over because of people like this terrorist because of because of what Mars is getting up to and perhaps what we're getting up to as well where maybe sticking our head in the sand and believing that it isn't happening because we want to live in a world where there is no fighting because that's paperwork like that's how he looks at it is this is a headache this is a nuisance if there is a conflict it means that there'll have to be all of this all of this uh unneeded work ahead of us and she is not as foolish as that when we go back to her and she's in her house this this gorgeous Abode that she lives in and she's just sitting there getting the news about how the terrorist killed himself she's not shocked she's not surprised she's more understanding of yes of course of course that's what would go on and it's just a byproduct of the uh not just incompetence of Earth uh but it's just a byproduct of yeah that one guy is sending out a message and sending out a message maybe what undermines everything if uh if the UN don't actually start taking things seriously because the the the T guy he does think of him like maybe he's just a one-off guy maybe he isn't that important maybe he doesn't know any better but she doesn't see it that way she sees it as you are carrying this important weapon these important parts you are trusted to do that that must mean gra that must mean you have an understanding of what's going on you must know some part of the agenda that the OPA is is is enforcing here and H really great and like I pointed out there's just shots of her house shots of like her outfit that actress's face her her body language with the with the other actors that she's off against she's like eating food while she's interrogating the guy like she's like nibbling on something all of these things were so like Illuminating to me yeah they they gave me so much the M on scene baby the Mis on scene now when it came to the UN stuff I know that I have a a big draw to it but like what do you think of it thus far like and like anything in in it in in this part of the show that you're uh keeping an eye on that's at least uh no I I have also been appreciating the the layers of meaning and attention to detail and not in a way where it's just like a the set decorator really loves their job and they got to go to IKEA but you know they've thought about this and they everybody on the whole crew through seems to be bringing each other up so we've got the all of these different layers from all of these different departments working together to create a sense of this is the world and also this is how the world reflects our current situation and is echoing back to those things within the show itself yeah he really is hitting the nail on the head they're doing a marvelous job with this side of the story here but I still don't give a [ __ ] you don't give a [ __ ] about the UN I don't give a [ __ ] H cuz I I find that I have to care about a a person first it's just like she feels Untouchable she feels like she's going to be in the show no matter what so it doesn't matter what she does but she does have higher ups that are keeping her in check and she does have some responsibility and accountability and hopefully there'll be some growth there but it's like I don't care what happens to her I'm interested enough that I want to find out but I don't care what happens to her yet and it's the same with all of the other characters like I'm like oh he did didn't get to wash his hair oh no well well a whole other thing it's just like oh yeah like I do I do kind of care that there are those water restrictions and it is unfair and that him using her water rations is just a very minor infraction compared to breaking and entering but it feels like the step moral represent he has the authority he has the authority he has a badge when it comes to the the un uh when it comes to Christian uh what I what I get excited about with her is you you mention it she has this Untouchable feel she she's very very clearly defined but it means you can think about what is in store for the character and how do we get there and if it does happen so I think about okay so what does she look like when everything is is falling out of her her grasp like when her Authority or when her Authority is failing and on the other side what happens when she gains ultimate power what does that look like and what does that do to the rest of the Galaxy what does that do to the rest of the stories if she is given like like ultimate authority over everything talker points out I do hope that we get to the point where we don't call him taker anymore well but that I'm gonna keep calling him T that's not today um when he's like you're two heartbeats away from like being in charge of Earth and the moon and the Moon Earth and Luna the moon's a little uh prison up there where they torture people isn't that nice and your belter will like gravity on Luna better that's the only thing you like I'm afraid F Heaven Help your enemies Christian I am enjoying the Big Empty as an episode but what I my Crossroads with it where I don't know how I feel is is our good friend Jim hton he's not okay his girlfriend died and he's going to be a suck about it and he's going to be angsty and he's going to be irrational and this is perhaps have a death wish and have a death wish and be a shitty leader and why am at a Crossroads you don't want that responsibility why I'm on the crossroads is I whole I fully understand this choice for a character I fully understand that this is a viable option for a protagonist and it wasn't poorly executed it made sense it lined up the acting was very good the dramatic Stakes that were brought from it were were relevant to the themes of the episode and it helped uh flesh out his crew of characters but the other thing is why I'm at the crossroads is I'm don't I also don't want
it like there's no articulate reason I don't have any like further things to deepen that like other than but I just don't want it it's a classic thanks thanks don't want it no is that cute no thank you see that's the that I probably liked the most no no it's it's well written it's well realized but it's just there's a part of me that's watching him [ __ ] and moan and that's what I'm saying I'm saying [ __ ] and moan because I don't want it like maybe I'm just tired of having protagonist men character who's like my girlfriend dead or not with me defines me being a shitty dude yeah like we just did with space above and beyond classic um I have this one trauma and it defines me and maybe I'm just not being fair to it as well because I I would like our lead character if he is the lead and I get the sensation he is to have shown me why he should be the lead other than he's a he's a Scamp with a heart of gold under he's like he's been rejecting Authority until he wants it and then he steals it back yeah you're completely right they they have in the script and in the performance they have they have Justified why this should be our lead character but there's just something about this type that I just don't I don't want right now I get that I get that I'm just I think I'm hopeful for Holden after hating West so much West from space above and beyond yeah I yeah I I think that the the recency of that experience has made me not as apprehensive about Holden though I am like you give main character Vibes but you aren't serving main character you know what I mean what it is uh at least what I can pinpoint is he himself is not that uh compelling of a character but what he does is he brings out the elements of the other characters he interacts with by being the unifying [ __ ] for all of them like all of them find him to be annoying all of them don't like him all of them find him to be someone that's compromising the mission and so him doing that helps us understand the rest of the crew but it's it's there's there's an unfortunate thing there of it also makes me agree with the rest of the crew and it makes me say why can't they be the main character I feel like that's a nice point to bring up something that I was thinking and feeling during this episode as I said like I kind of liked the adventure of you know basically spacing themselves and trying to get the message out uh I didn't like the part when they realized that they sent the distress call to the people that they they attack had attacked them uh I was like well it was more that he didn't even care but they had jammed it anyway like the the ship they knew that that Mar's ship was coming for them and Holden being a [ __ ] was like I'll send out a message to the Galaxy and somebody will get it it's like well you waited too long for that buddy they're jaming us it doesn't matter no they were in range doesn't matter but there was that dude who H an was like oh you're [ __ ] that chick right I remember nobody's name I do actually I do that's a that's a my bad thing um that's not necessarily the show is felt uh but he keeps on being like can we just kill him can we just kill him can but like I like really can we just kill him now I got told me like I kind of wish that you would love I kind of wish that you would because I would love to see that sort of D thing done in a show like this but they just kill the main character in the second episode and then you're like oh yeah like the start of every scream film or more more in the vein of psycho like you get a solid chunk and you think that they're going to be the main character and then they get killed off the Game of Thrones approach definitely right where you start the first season where you think this anden out I understand no no I just want to make it known I really did like the the Holden story like them surviving on the ship I I liked it it's just that character type isn't my jam right now I just he he has Room to Grow but whenever he was doing something in the actual storyline itself I I crossed my arms and went okay buddy can we go back to Alex can we go back to Amos Naomi or or the doctor who he has a weird name is it like shed or I think they called him shed something like that but I I was really liking those those guys and the ship survival stuff now do you have uh like how do you like what do you think about survival storylines in general like movies where like Cast Away or or episodes of say TNG like disaster where it is about oh no this thing's happening and I have to gather the resources together and survive the elements I like those stories in video games where I get to be the person trying to survive I don't tend to seek out those things in other forms of media though like I only watched cway for the first time in the last two years I think mhm um and I never really engage that much with those kind of episodes in TV I think some of my least favorite episodes of far escape were those ones where it's just like oh no we're Maroons oh no we're caught in a timy wiy wormhole we have to press a bunch of buttons what about Doctor Who Doctor Who would have some of those episodes again just like sometimes I would be like oh that's neat and then I would be like yeah but it just doesn't give me much like I think about the uh evil 2D people episode of Doctor Who with which was my favorite with with koldi Peter koldi iy didn't I yeah yeah your your brain is all about
galy but um I do like survival stories I like them a lot especially when it's about an ensemble because he watched lost at all I love the Poseidon I love the Poseidon Adventure I love survival I love problem solving I love seeing characters problem solved you say you like playing video games like that I actually don't because I find it monotonous after a while but when it comes to stories it is my it really is I have a sweet tooth for it because it allows in in the in the progression of things for character building where we understand who these people are through their ways of solving a problem as well as how they work together or don't as a team and so this really hit all the buttons for me right down to the they solved it by just doing the old human thing of kicking it real hard until it works were so happy when that happened because it's you like yeah kick it cuz it's like the blue color way of doing it you wouldn't see like you wouldn't see it's like oh [ __ ] this stupid [ __ ] thing and kick it and then it kick it just kick it and it works and if it doesn't make kick it the other way and see if it works then like but it doesn't even like it's like I love it more which is also the way that I read it with it it's just like oh [ __ ] this thing is not working not I'm kicking it to make it work just you [ __ ] thing not working I hate you I hate you yeah that's it that's it I I I I liked it a lot it gave me a blue color grease monkey feel of these characters uh Naomi is like in the ship she's fiddling with all the Y she's like crawling around you have the doctor just panicking he's having a panic attack during all of this you have Amos out there helping holding but also Al considering murdering him which I love very much I can take a core part put it back together with my eyes closed but ask me whether or not I should rip your helmet off and kick you off his bucket I can't give you a reason why I should or
shouldn't except Naomi wouldn't like it I I I like how they all have their specialty which is why they got involved in this particular mission that they were on in the first place and I like that that doesn't determine their whole personality because often like to go back to Star Trek yet again um often the people within certain departments are full of cliches of like oh he's an engineer so he thinks and acts like this or he's in security so he thinks and acts like this they're the doctor so they're like this all the time yeah but they do a mix of having those things and some of them are a little bit like on a a Twist on the typical things like how the doctor is the medic is very pissed off to be there and he's like he's the one that's probably the most like we're going to die we're going to die I really love the doctor because he was also too in his own head to be able to do the doctor role without having someone bark at him without having someone to grab him and Shake him by the shoulders and say hey this person over here is suffering go do your [ __ ] job dumbass or he was too like addled to even do it for himself I I thought that was great to talk about that subversion of trips now Alex is the pilot guy the guy with the the headphones and the beanie I think he does not get away from what you're talking about because he does the pilot thing of stroking the ship and talking to it and being like I love this ship she's so great and like oh the typical the pilot wants to [ __ ] like the Navigator the guy who drives the ship wants to basically [ __ ] it uh and he upset when people touch it in the right way and then work for you like in that episode of pearly and space above and beyond yes but I liked him the most I mean other than Amos he was I liked him more than Naomi honestly because uh he uh he came across a little bit like that like I said the the ship ship stroking guy but him suffocating and getting the air from the doctor and him letting out this more uh human side of the character rather than just the I am my job side like him grabbing the doctor and and hugging him and all of that I I I found him to be and him with the music the headphones always on I just I found him to be and the actor is very charismatic he's one of those guys where I I can already tell and I hand on a heart I I just hope that this happens that the writers give him more of a chance on the screen I hope that this isn't a character that stays to the side and Withers there because you like with Christian you don't have to spend too much time with that performer to understand that they're easily one of the best in the show already like he I would rather be the main character honestly like and that's no offense to the guy who is playing uh Holden he's doing a good job but this guy just has a certain certain presence that just makes me want to hang out with him a lot more just yeah the actor just has a Swagger to him just a casual nature to him that and he has that intensity in presence um I talked about a but what do you think about him he's the guy that's like I want to kill Holden well I kind of touched on it before I appreciate him I think he's an [ __ ] but I kind of like that would you call him a sociopath because he really does have like a real Detachment from emotions and uh morality he very much is I don't do it because she tells me not to and I like her so I will do that but like he's [ __ ] up he's like a freak I mean did you expect that one of the crew would just be an out andout freak like that just a guy with this but I think you will love him if he stays that way because of the way that you love that very similar plot in
Voyager I do worry though that we're going to get a love triangle with him holding and Naomi I say that because uh she's the woman of the show and Holden's the man of the show and that's just uh what they love to do they love to put them together and make them go Smoochy Smoochy Smoochy yeah uh I don't I I I look is is is is that even a prediction like I don't know if that happens but is it do like do I even bother say oh I my theory is like is it just a given am I am I crazy like you saw that right I looked
away Rachel just physically looks away when she sees it happening on screen she she actually leaves the room every time it happens I don't need that oh just like me with uh hton no thanks not today they get captured at the end they they do all of the survival stuff they have some bonding moments and then they get captured by Mars and uh they get guns drawn on them laser pointers are pointed at their face and Mars is all up in their Grill I am Keen for the Mars action I really like how the series is slowly building them up as this adversary for everyone and I maybe it's just also I'm so used to sence fiction making Mars the the struggle planet where Mars is always the one that's struggling against Earth while here they're pretty they seems like they're pretty equal to Earth and maybe even stronger than Earth is when it comes to military might and so them walking around with that big dick energy has me uh has me sitting at the edge of my seat because I don't see that happened with Mars that much in stories not really it's always about the they're struggling they're having to try and survive there's terraforming there's inequality there's uh totalitarianism but here they're they're the uh they're the the military people they tell you that straight from the beginning that Mars isn't just Colony it isn't just some Planet that's just we have people they're they're a fullon military organization over there and so when they draw the guns on a a lovely crew of Misfits I'm sitting there pumping my fist going yeah boy I can't wait to see what these guys are up to because also the UN story talks about Mars a lot and so we hear about them but now we finally get the opportunity to see them and they lived up to everything I wanted how evil are they actually going to be their ship did have red lighting because they're from Mars and also because they're villainous again miss on scene unless they have found a new friend like Mars cold war is a bloodless War Mutual distrust and complete codependence nobody wants to change that at least of all Mars uh I left this towards the end because uh I don't know how you feel about it but Miller Miller Miller Miller on the series station having to further investigate the Julie MA case and he gets him and havlock get uh embroiled in some wacky local crime Shenanigans well it's it's the on the books investigation for the episode cuz the Julie stuff is his off the books contract kidnapping mhm so uh Miller talk to us a bit about uh things happening in the Miller plot and your opinions of them I just don't really care do I have to talk about it um his partner goes and sees a prostitute he's holding a cactus the whole episode that was a fun gag my favorite thing about the Miller plot was the cactus gag I I didn't think it would continue and then it kept continuing and I I did have a big smile on my face so you you have apathy towards the Miller Story and Miller as a character in general yeah um it's really Petty but I think it's an indication of my own overall feelings that I hate his hair wow I hate his haircut like it's a like a undercut yeah yeah well I okay yeah I have I have no opinions on uh and I don't like his outfits I don't like the hat like whenever I physically see him on screen I'm like no thank you so he's your Holden where he's like I understand the type I understand what they're doing with it but no thank you uh look I think that the characterization of Miller is is actually good I I like it I think uh Thomas Jane is acting the [ __ ] out of it he's Charming he's he's he's nonch work in it what my issue is with the Miller Story other than the case itself is uh and I imagine it may lead somewhere you know important but just in terms of sitting down for 45 minutes and cutting to this it's boring as [ __ ] okay his case like the on the books case that takes up a lot of time didn't care didn't really want to see it oh no oh no the crass is yellowed the crass is yellow he uh uses a little drone again I just didn't care havlock I find to be an embarrassing character I think he's poorly written poorly realized overstatement to say that he's a character he is a guy that stands there and says obvious lines things that we already could pick up on our own it's the inverse of what's happening on Earth stuff yeah and that is my biggest critique of Miller's plot and I'm going to say of the expanse right now because this happens in Holden's story as well but way more it's it's almost like Miller's plot is the writers are struggling the most where they have no subtlety in themes they just keep hitting us over the head with the themes and the messages but Ryan did you know that inequality is bad I don't know what it is because like I know what inequality is I don't know I don't know why they are dropping the ball when it comes to this side of it when they aren't when it comes to the UN and they're not really dropping it too heavily in the Holden plot like with Holden side of it like that story it's it's in the realm of Ah that's acceptable for for for exposition sake but here I mean I I was getting angry watching the Miller plot because I felt like they were treating me like I was a fool I was too stupid to understand am I am I being irrational here did you feel uh any of this uh how did you feel about the the the that side of the story and how they were telling us information and themes did was it as pandering or as on the nose as I'm making it out or did you not feel that at all oh yeah I just got fed up with it and I stopped paying close attention because I was like oh well they're just going to tell me at least three times the things that I need to know that are really important so I kind of check out one this stuff's on screen because they're going to overe explain it well what some of the ways that they did that that they that they hit their nail too hard and obviously there for you all some of those moments it's just like I found that in a lot of the scenes each person was repeating what the other person said but in a different way so there wasn't any progression in the conversation they weren't discussing something they weren't exchanging information they were saying this thing is this thing and then other person is like Okay so this thing is this thing and then the first person would be like yeah this thing is this thing so you would hear the same information regurgitated over and over again like when they're explaining the idea that somebody's stealing the water it's like they're all are explaining that somebody's stealing the water and it's having this effect on the gardens yes and that this is bad and it's happening because over and over and over and over again and it's happening because of these water rations and we got told about the water rations like 50 times and we get told because the Canterbury hasn't made it back it means now people are dying and we get that explained and explained and explained and and one of the things that I just I got it but they they they just couldn't get over it which is all of this water rationing is happening this inequality the the the higher ups the lower UPS literally these people with the world to do stuff are higher up on the station than the people who don't they're lower down and yes okay that's not bad in itself but okay I it's on the nose I I it's in my nostril now I get it I can smell it but what I really could not forgive was them just having Miller walking around being devil make care and uh doesn't like he has such little regard for that water rationing situation where we start out the episode and he's having shower just wasting all of this water then it gets taken away from him and it's like huh and then when he goes on the case he's pouring a glass of water so aggressively that it spills out of the glass he only takes a sip and then pours it back in The Jug this there's many many many moments like that throughout this story where they just keep on show like you mentioned he has a shower at Julie mau's house so he can finish his shower cuz he just needs to waste water and I got it but they kept revisiting that in the episode so often to the point where in the final scene he's he's drenched in water because he's having a fight with the guy and then he lets the guy go but okay I'm making a big deal out of that and I could see why people would argue it's a good thing like here are all of these reasons why it works it's going back to visual storytelling CU he's not vocally saying anything and it's not really giving us an explanation of why he is so uh like disregarding of it but in so doing it's telling us a bit about his character okay I can see the argument I can see the purpose that doesn't mean I like the execution not see the purpose of is havlock explaining things out loud like when the guy was let go when when when when Miller let that guy go and let him run free Miller did the thing where he explained why he did it and we the audience can noded along going yeah okay but then have look I guess as a comedic beat was just well huh I didn't expect that that was totally out of nowhere I had an idea of what your character was like Miller but then you proved me wrong wacky that I kind of hope he turns out to be an Android and that's the explanation for why he's so stupid I wonder if he's a bad guy because it is weird that they like he meets up with that sex worker at the end and there's just a beat about that that is is something going on there's more going on with this havlock guy because he presents himself as this golly G and so morally upright character and and and he's in Earth so he has this higher reputation by default and I'm not saying there's anything duplicit about him because he's he's meeting up with a sex worker I'm saying there's just something about the way that those two characters interacted and that's the final moment of havlock that's indicating to me that there is more going on with him but there's a secret it doesn't it it felt like they would have shown it differently if he was going to her in her capacity as a sex worker schooling me on gangsters okay yeah dirt bag schools in session listen you can pick all the pockets you want roll drunks but when you mess with the water that's when you're going down maybe another factor to why we just don't care about Miller's story is the the the the the thing he's solving I just didn't believe it weirdly like there's this case he's on and it's so I don't know so uh by the numbers after school special level crime if this was a crime being solved by a teenager who's wanting to be a detective then maybe like oh no somebody's stealing water from the water fountain who is it then maybe I would care if this was a cartoon where we're following like an 8-year-old in a trench coat and he finds out that it's a school principal who's doing it then maybe I would be endeared to this but I just in the stakes of this series where when he's investigating the Julie ma stuff I actually like that I love what they're doing with his investigations of Julie Ma now I like I I actually thought that was really wonderful when we saw the messages from her father the scar on her chin which I noticed as soon as I saw her I went I wonder if that's an actual scar on that actress or if it's a part of the character and then later on he was asking the same thing of basically like what's a scar about why is it here what's its meaning I thought that was uh competent and not just competent but again trusting in us the audience to have these pieces and put them together for ourselves and then eventually the characters put them together and we join in on that Journey with them but when you have the other plot about the guy stealing water I don't know it just felt so kidsy to me and I I joked about it in our previous uh discussion but I'm not saying it ironically anymore but this reminds me of the film Tank Girl where that was an overt comedy where it was a joke that the villainous group that had all the water and had power was called water and power here I just kept thinking about tank girl I just kept thinking about Tank Girl the entire time now what did you think about uh uh the the handling of Julie ma because she is that thing that is going to keep propelling the plot forward our characters are going to learn more about her and thus we are going to learn more about her I mean how did you feel about it all it was okay I was like it's a thing that's happening and eventually I might care about it but not right now any piece of information that um that uh I'm intrigued to see the thing that her dad was threatening to sell I I'm intrigued to see the visual of that we learned that the scopuli the ship that she was on was something that she hired in the first place so it is not a vessel where she's been kidnapped and put on at least from what we can determine I thought that was a a good piece of information I actually didn't think about that that this is something that she's hired and so it does make me want to know what went wrong on the scopula and if she's even still on it when we first saw her I I really don't know but but I thought that was a great piece um what do you think she's up to what do you think's happening with Julie M do you like do you have any theories on that do you have any any inclinations or even just her character because PA maybe yeah yeah that's my guess yeah um yeah I don't know I I'm not too sure what her her plan is and if it's a genuine one because this show is very much making a case of she's a rich girl who's lashing out at her daddy and I'm wondering if they're going to follow down that road more or if they're going to reveal to us that is not actually the case that there is something grander to why she's doing the thing she is like the reason that she's joined whatever group this is and the reason that she's fighting back is deeper than than just the presentation of the rich girl who doesn't like her position because she lives in a gilded cage type lifestyle I lik her dad that actor he's been in a bunch of stuff and so when I saw his face I said oh he'll be in the show more not only because he was just a message and clearly going to have him in more but he's just one of those actors who who's in everything and he was in lost so there you go see Co comes back to Lost Rachel he was in Lost uh but I don't know we'll keep a tab on uh on Julie ma see see how that uh progresses over the show yeah it'll be interesting hopefully it's come to that part where we have to rate this on a scale of yum being bad and yum yum being good we do not give half yums we don't have a middle ground we're very black and white yum bad yum yum good so The Big Empty uh I'm guessing your rating but I want to hear it from you yum yum I've been been harsh harsher than I've been meaning to be uh I actually did enjoy this a lot uh I found great excitement I really liked how they connected all of the plots together not just through themes but through little bleeding elements such as the canary being destroyed means that series is going to have lack of water so then all of the stuff with Miller is happening and then Earth will have to step inen immed there's consequen everything ripples out uh Mars being involved and all of this so I I really appreciate it on a structure level like this second episode kicked it kicked it out of the like just kicked it really hard in terms of to me the viewer going okay this is what a structure of the expanse looks like in the 45 minutes yeah uh but the truth is uh we haven't watched this since like a day or so ago and I didn't think about any element of it except for the UN mhm but I'm going to give this a very light Yum Yum Yum Yum because I do think this is a good episode I do think this was an entertaining watch and I'm more excited to watch the next episode than I was when I've watched the first episode I'm pretty much on par do you have just any out there thoughts and predictions for what the show could offer up no particularly like I have the basic ones like eventually the main characters on each of the things might me up that uh Christian will have to leave Earth at some stage you don't think they'll go to Earth I think it's more likely that they'll go out to the Belt then they'll get from the belt to Earth um I think that there's going to be a lot of stuff about that stealth ship that it's going to stick around for a while because they've reinforced its important so I don't think it's going to get destroyed do you think there actually a Ms ship couple I don't know I don't know I I I think it's going to be um only humans in the Galaxy kind of situation sorry oh I just meant like it could have be my theory is my theory is this now I I held back on this from the last episode because we didn't have enough but I think I have a little bit more to go off of here I was wondering if Christian was being a mellian type who was pretending like they care about the the war not happening but they were actually pulling the strings that they're the ones that is she's the one that's putting things in place that we're seeing like this steal ship like maybe she's in League with Mars or blah or she's were giving stuff to the OPA but she's pretending not to be this episode completely said no to that for me she seems too genuinely invested in the ideals of Earth but also just she has such an opposing view to the other people in the UN what I think is the case my theory is her boss taka mhm I think he's the guy I think he's the guy that has a foothold with Mars and they're doing shady [ __ ] I think he's going to be evil yeah Andor maybe he's using resources to pretend to be Mars to kick off a conflict for whatever reason I think he's going to be a piece of [ __ ] and I don't even like I in like there's lots of ways that he could be a piece of [ __ ] but I think he is going to be an even bigger piece of [ __ ] cuz he's not a good person in what we see in this episode well I think that's because he doesn't seem to have any set moral convictions she does hers are there and whether she will abide by them or notes is relevant to the conversation they are there he has shown himself to be a guy that he's not outright evil but he he has a guy that says to me I will go wherever the wind blows and that's just my theory that's my my little uh take on the expans for the moment being let's hear about next week well it's a very sorrowful episode title remember the C that's the title c a n cany ah remember the Cs so uh when it comes to the next one I don't know what the plot is nor do you we are not reading the summaries we're just going off the titles and from just logical deduction I would imagine we're going to have an interrogation episode where the crew are being interrogated by Mars and we are hopefully going to learn a bit more about Mars now I don't know what Miller's going to get up to I don't know what Earth is going to get up impact of the
rations and I guess the Fallout from that guy suicide on Earth yeah so that is it that's all we've got for you here while we explore the expanse and our relationship grows with the series as we debate with one another ah man yeah I I really didn't know what your point of view was going to be on this cuz when we were watching it you pretty you had a poker face on and you know for people to know when I was sitting next to Rachel she she had she was seeming to enjoy herself a lot more when watching it and I I'm curious just to touch on that is this a show you think is one that's more enjoyable to watch in the moment rather than like think about it afterwards yeah like it goes down pretty easy but it's not memorable well let's see how memorable it gets because uh I do know that this is a show with a with a bit of a first season hump uh it's probably one of the reason why I also didn't gravitate towards it on my initial watch if it was that good you would have kept with it yeah and I had other life factors getting in the way but yes it didn't draw me in enough but let's see if it keeps drawing Us in people you can find us on your social medias of choice under yum yum po or yum yum podcast we are on patreon where we release these episodes first so if you're hearing this on the Main feed and want to know how much uh more we love or don't love the expans uh where we're at with it what we're thinking of it go to our patreon where you can find all of that content plus so much more including you can be a part of our group Discord so yum yum podcast on patreon you can email us your thoughts questions cous concerns at yum yumod gmail.com and all of this provided in the description below thank you all so much for listening to us thank you all so much for coming over here and hearing us to quibble over the fact that uh the expanse is a series where a guy has a a weird haircut that Rachel doesn't like and he wears a hat and Jim Holden is a character that exists that I don't want uh Rachel we haven't figured out what our what our sign off is when we're exploring the expanse um but I I will say I am disappointed M that we didn't get that pracher guy again the one in the first episode who was telling us about all of the inequality and he said dusters mhm uh I I wish he was here he had some insults too like water Wala or something yeah I wish he was back that's that's that's that's just my final statement I miss that [Music]
guy see you then
well