Rachel and Ryan must face their biggest challenge yet! Remembering the events of Star Trek: Discovery's third season. SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast
Welcome aboard the Starship Yum Yum in which we your intrepid hosts Ryan and Rachel Sliwinski try to break down episodes of Star Trek: Discovery without having a breakdown ourselves. This week on Yum Yum Trek we recap season 3.
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hey ryan hey rachel how are you i'm doing okay how are you i'm feeling fantastic rachel i'm feeling yum yum the utmost amount of yum yum is being felt right now full yum yum a full yum yum no half yums are happening right now no half yums are allowed no half yums are allowed but sometimes you feel a half yum but you can't say it on the pod because we don't allow it to give a half yum but you can feel it but i'm not feeling happy no you're feeling full yum yum so all the yum yum talk is because of the iconic line of dialogue from commander nan d from star trek discovery and we're here rachel yes we are back on the third season of star trek discovery not enough commander nandi well you're right i was going to say well she had a hole up no no no more nandi where's her show in which we find out why she licked her lips and flicked her hair back and said yum yum where's her star where's star trek naan huh where's that show where's that show star trek nine in which well we recently covered star trek 09 oh none they should that's the next star trek movie star trek onan in which it's them going oh none you wacky character you oh no and then she just rolls her eyes carry-on or police squad it's a comedy film yeah but with star trek discovery style comedy so it's a tragedy a science vessel is practically a museum okay well museums are cool so that's what someone who lives in a museum would say they live in a museum so we are here to talk about season three if people have not watched the third season of star trek discovery well tough we're going to be talking about it we've covered all the episodes so we're here to recap and look back and discuss the season overall rachel you're smiling what are you smiling about um because i i was saving a story for this episode oh i love stories i that's why i watch star trek discovery yeah i love watching stories that's why i'm here go on tell me your story so as you you are aware um i've been carpooling with a colleague from work and i've been talking to her about the podcast yeah and we didn't want to say it on the pod until now but their name is nandi they're very much a person who licks their lips and say yum yum and reply to things they have this breathing apparatus on their face go on you of course are just taking my word for that you have not met this person have we met nan really we've all we felt like we've met knives but we haven't we haven't really we've met none but we haven't gotten to no no that's that's it that's it i mean sure it took her a few weeks on being bored the discovery to tell them her name yes um because apparently that wasn't necessary but so uh nandi your friend that you carpool with yeah
um this amount of build up is going to make sound so lame um so now i was driving home with nandi and she was explaining that the other day she finished up a podcast and she's subscribed to ours in anticipation of our next series because i gave her the heads up of what we were doing next oh and no one's familiar with this show yes oh well somewhat i love i i just said that i really don't like star trek discovery and that's what we're doing now um and i would encourage her more to wait for when what we're going to be talking about next of course because she hasn't watched that show right right so um it auto played our latest episode which at this at the time was the i think that her that hope is you part two oh okay yeah and then she was just like she paused for a moment and contemplated how to say it and she's like brian has a sexy voice i didn't like you said that you didn't like discovery but i had no idea how much you didn't like this show well and that's coming from a character in the show that's saying a lot people so rachel you stated at the very beginning of our season revisit review re-watch that season three was the best season and your stipulation for that was it was the most enjoyably bad season to you yet you also said it was the most competent season at the same time we're here now you sure to use receipts how do you feel now seriously how do you feel now where does this stand for you what is your feelings on season three i don't know if i would still say that it's the best season but i feel like i can put up with the kind of bad that this season is more so than the way that the first two seasons were bad because each season has its unique attributes which i believe are demerits against the show and right other people find those same things endearing or enjoy them but you don't but i don't so would you say that the show has gotten better as it goes along how would you go about it no because this is the best season to you but it has the same problems but that but that doesn't mean that it isn't the better like it's better no no but but i can't in good conscience say yes then why but i can't in reality so i can't give a full yum yum and there's no half gums allowed so i just don't know where i am ryan i don't know what's going on my question then turns into if it's got the same issues as it always has then how is this any better than than it is at being worse because to me this is the worst season partly because of that it hasn't adapted and the things that it has adapted to i think is for the for the detriment of the quality of the show rather than the improvement of the show especially if you look at it as the whole thing not just as an individual season when you do watch season three and remember how the show started it is bewildering that we're at this state to begin with i know people like our good friend julio says that you can watch this and isolate like you could still absorb this as long as the show's good now then who cares about the past but i can't separate the fact that this show had a past thus i think that this season has some major issues with that attached to it i think i know what it is when we originally did that first episode of season three of season three
season three had beaten me into submission of like i was like this just is what it is and at least now they can't go hey there's this reference to this other thing and drag up characters that they know that some of the audience already knows and likes to try and give them they didn't good karma they didn't have the ability to go as heavy on the references as they used to so the structural problems are still very much there the script the visual style is still the same which is one that i did not particularly enjoy though i do feel like you know the main character of cgi sparks wasn't in this season quite as much i missed cj sparks where did they where did that character arc go i will say fizzled out it's weird because one of my main complaints
is
bravo congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations congratulations it's weird because i in the past i've complained about how star trek discovery relied so heavily on the references and the you remember this aspect as we're in season three now and its whole thing is it's forging its own path now and we're exploring undiscovered countries and so on and so forth was that meant to be a pun it was a reference just like star trek discovery does so it's weird because i found this season the least interesting and i'm wondering is it because it didn't have any of the like the good of not even good the familiar things of star trek to it and instead it felt like any generic sci-fi show well before it was any generic sci-fi show but they also had spock and they also had klingons maybe this season offered up as a promise we're exploring new areas of the can we're making our own canon now we're we're ahead in the future what does the federation what does the world of star trek look like and i don't think i learned anything like when you hear that when knows rachel when you hear that pitch you're thinking oh oh so many things it feels like there's so many things you can do and when i watch this season it felt so small and so empty and i know it's about disconnection and all that but i didn't feel like i experienced any anything new which is what the promise was i felt like oh it's all the old same [ __ ] again but now we've got even less stuff because now we don't even have the klingons now we don't even have spock now we don't even have the structural foundations of the star trek universe we had in those first two seasons now we just have wandering about and just going what caused the season long mystery i don't feel like i really got to find out anything new about the races that are involved or the characters i never felt like but we didn't get to learn much about nevada we just know that it exists that's my point like we have this concept that has been around for decades yeah in our world like the conversation piece of unification part three right yeah and i still don't feel like i have any connection or un full understanding of that process what it means the implications for the world i'm just like i don't see how this is any different other than the fact that they are both on the same planet now here's how i would describe the neva situation and a lot of the familiar things we know and now in the future and so we've seen how they progressed going on navarre going on the unification for example when that idea was presented in tng we've had almost three decades since that so you've had not talking about writers just general people like you or i just think up in our head huh i wonder what that would be like if they're unified what would actually be that and the first few things that you think of like well i think the romulans would be like outcasted in the society a little bit more like put to the side the vulcans would be kind of snooty i think that there would be half breeds and there would be half and that and none of it rises above those general boilerplate thoughts they never go into anything deeper than what i can just commonly daydream and think about and all of that don't feel like they ever dive into the veins of the of the ideas and go through the currents and actually explore anything deeper it is just hey you know the concept of unification you know the concept of these things that you would like to see done in the future like holograms existing and all this stuff they're there but they don't they don't add any interesting wrinkles to it that you think would happen naturally like we've seen in previous iterations of star trek where the ones in the 60s show are very different to the klingons and tng right but here it's like the vulcans are the same as they ever were the romulans are the same as they ever were except for now they just live on the same street i but ryan i think if it did those things we would be so shocked because it would be a surprise it would be such a surprise and so out of character for star trek discovery at this stage to deal with the depth of themes that they bring up or ideas just and bring ideas to fruition in a way that is satisfying and heavily links to the deep nature of the federation yeah and starfleet of being a diplomatic association of people and planets other than the fact that a little boy screams so loud that people can't travel fast now oh my god what has changed other than superficial tech because the federation although crippled still has the exact same [ __ ] structural ideas as they did in season one and two nothing has changed nothing evolved like oh my supervisor you are so right because when you said that i was just like oh well yeah we know that the like the federation had this many planets and then i was like that is an indiscovery and that's superficial because that's just like superficial details but like when you actually get into the things of really what about this version of the federation that was scrambling and dying is different to the version of the federation and staff starfleet we saw at the end of season one that were losing the klingon war not much other than they had a bigger structural foundation but they operate in the exact same fashion and it's been almost a thousand years heck in our lifetime we've seen how much the u.n has changed from its initial foundational points and that's what i mean of the do we have to keep on talking about it because i just keep on realizing how bad this show is and that's what i mean yeah well we have to because we're doing a recap but with season three other than it being extremely boring the central mystery being a complete dud i think that's the biggest crime to me is it's promising with its pitch we're gonna cut off the ties of the old series the
new things in our own way and actually develop stuff and not be restricted and it's the same as it ever was it's the same as it ever was same as it ever was same as it ever was season three is held up by the mystery as is each season a central kind of mystery or theme like a plot thing the burn what did you think of the burn rachel is this the best mystery structural thing of any season or is it the worst because i to me it's the worst yeah i think the red angel ended up being better upon reflection yeah that's so disgusting to say i know i feel sleazy saying that but it is the way that i'm feeling at the moment why doesn't the burn why is the burn so bad in comparison to the klingon war the red angel what makes it fail so hard
why
you know what that's a really good question and i'm burnt out on trying to answer it like because there's no end to the question of why but i will at least attempt to answer it because you know this is a podcast and we are meant to be having a discussion about these things and i think it is because in the previous two seasons though they had the moment of revealing the mystery and then a couple of episodes later revealing it again
this one felt the most insulting because they say pretty much like the exact same thing at both of those stages of the reveal and it makes it feel like the writers are assuming that i am the stupid one and i didn't get it the first time yeah whereas i'm more so thinking if season two with the red angel they have the take backseas which isn't insulting to me as a watcher in terms of my intelligence it makes me think that the writers are stupid so you say you don't like being insulted by your intelligence but you're okay to feel like the writers are dumb yes i understand that i think what makes the burn a dissatisfying mystery and story and structural thing other than the reveal of it the reveal of it is just insulting to the audience like there's no fun to be had there no one could have guessed that and the breadcrumbs on the re-watch are so minimal that you could say anything as a breadcrumb to it if you really wanted to and the ones that are there are constructed in such a way where they only exist to be breadcrumbs there's no sense of anything else that wasn't even what i was going to say but that is true yeah they they exist as writing manipulation yes it feels like yes we've given you a breadcrumb but then we sweep it up so there's no trail and we can say that we left something for you if you look really hard but why by that i i'm also trying to illustrate the point that they drop a few hints but there's no trail for you to lead forward and backwards once you know what happened which is what good and great storytelling does so my big issue with the burn and i've said this many times throughout the season is there was no building up of the stakes or peril of the burn itself it was more the stakes were built up via the burn had caused society to degrade thus the emerald chain but the burn itself did not rack up any stakes like the red angel did the threat what is the red age or what's their intentions we keep meeting it here here here the klingon war as well as a is a war yeah but and then the klingon war is a literal war and that although we didn't see the war as much as we would have liked it fed into the threat of lorca on the ship because it was benefiting him you see so we had stuff like that there was the building up of peril tension tension while this the whole both of those first seasons have some sort of flip yes while here we're just told that it's important to solve this and the only straight down the line the only reason it's really important to solve this is because it happened in the first place michael says so no yeah michael says says but from from a viewer perspective you would obviously want to know oh well what would have caused that because they set it up like it's a mystery yeah not just some natural event or weapon that went off or blah blah blah blah but really the show never gives you any reason to care because it's not like it's a looming presence it happened one time over a hundred years ago and everyone reacts to it now like they don't everyone reacts to it like they they they acknowledge it happened and they're just trying to live with it but michael's screaming at the top of her lungs no drop everything so we can figure out this mystery instead of rebuilding society and that's what i think is the major fault is we could have figured that we can never rebuild society until we know what caused the ban and i rejected that hypothesis because again the book which is originally what vance says
alphabet speech so then i it was just a non-dynamic mystery because or threat because it only happened once it's not like as if throughout the series it kept happening and they're like we have to deal with this we have to find out what's attacking us what's going on it is just it happens relatively easy fix relatively easy instead of happening once have it it happened once we've managed to rebuild our world but now smaller versions are happening yeah and when they get to the thing it's because the hollows are starting to degrade and sukkah he's crying is crying infrequently but not as strongly yeah so then they like they have a reason why it's now more than just michael says so that's a relatively easy fix it would still be incredibly [ __ ] stupid but you can have at least a little bit more of an inciting incident that happens within the time frame of the season that we as the audience are thrust into because the whole time when i was watching it i didn't care about solving the burn i'd rather the show focused on rebuilding society that was far more of an interest to me it felt far more star trek and it felt like that's what every other character wanted to do but michael said the burn is the most important thing that we have to solve in the universe and we solve it and i'm sorry but it all hinges then on what the reveal of it is and the reveal is stupid and it makes you go oh well all of this was was kind of stupid i think i think the audience has to have a satisfying experience of the season i think they have to feel it's come full circle that they've had an arc so what was the best episode of this season to you when you look back what's the one that oh i need to literally look back fondly on for the majority of episodes i'm like you can't even remember no i guess that says something in the first two seasons you could at least remember plots or moments or like things like i only remember the annoying ones you don't remember any good episodes here i remember that we somewhat liked the second episode which was very western inspired and felt like an episode of enterprise i think that's the best episode i think far from home is probably also the best episode of discovery it use it utilizes all the discovery things to a t and it worked um i also think it's ironic that it's the episode without michael and it works the best too i don't know if that's a statement on its own but it's a fact yeah i think all the characters were competent enough in that episode as well again it reminded me of an enterprise episode so that was fine the antagonist was good and the threats were reasonable and it wasn't like insane where like deus ex machinas walk in or this or this or this the worst aspect of that episode was the day i smoked out of michael at the end yeah and that was like the worst thing about that episode to me it stands so clearly above the rest of the season and if the rest of the season was on that level then i would be uh so on board i mean even when you look back at the rest of season it's weird that this episode exists because remember the bartender guy in that episode yeah you look at the end of the season and it's like oh that was a character in this in this show huh like like i know it was a one and done but it's like huh right that that was a that was that happened like that's the weird thing about the season is so many things you look back on and go oh yeah that's right the seed ship or oh do you wanna quickly run up through each of the episodes and their plots oh if we can remember them yeah okay but do you think the second episode was the best yes i agree so the first episode is that hope is you part one where michael lands in the future and is high and meets book yep um far from home we went through then what's the next one people of earth the worst episode of the entire series probably to me it's it's pretty much there they go to the well when i say they go to earth i mean they dick about for half the episode telling us about how much michael has changed and then they go to earth and wrap up the plot real quick yeah then i don't know you have to tell me you don't remember what the next one is because from who do we meet in people of earth oh forget me not we the episode we did with julio that's the episode that we did but that episode is about adiero going to the
and then from there i don't know is it a book episode oh scavengers right yes book ghost book is imprisoned on quarry planet and we meet that amazing character rin remember rin yeah why was he in this whole season i don't know we don't know nobody knows episode seven right that's what we're up to now oh you're doing really well ryan i know that there's like one in between the two book episodes and that's what makes it very frustrating because in a way it makes this seventh episode supremely what do they get from the quarry planet rin and book why did book go to that planet in the first place oh is it unification three yes [ __ ] how could i forget how i mean easily easily in fact it kind of really doesn't equate to anything in the series huh no it doesn't really then the eighth episode is the one of the worst episodes book has brother dramas yes do you remember the title this one uh it has a stupid title no you have to tell me the
the the sanctuary oh [ __ ] the sanctuary of course okay and then we have uh terraformer part one yes and terra firma part which is redemption arc for space hitler sorry heather she's space hitler um not going to take that back not going to retract that in fact double down on it look at the double potter double parlor double down then it's uh sir carl yes and then it's it's where we meet the the cause of the burn and then we answer that but then we doodle around for three two more episodes wondering what it is there is a tide where they take over the ship and we have to get it back and then that hope is you part two in which we end the show yes so what was the worst episode to you was it people of earth when you look back or did another one stick out to you because you didn't seem to hate that one as much as me but i oh that one sticks in my cross so much with how much i have to tell and not show and like also again when you look back they went to earth at one point and it it really equated to nothing huh okay can i go on a bit of a tirade okay so dad hope is you is the worst season opener for the season of course for any season our worst introduction of the character in this season i think goes to that hope is your part one because to book so stupid yes and it's just like completely random and they don't even use that as a thing it's just a contrivance for contrivance sake well what about the terrible entrance of osira where cyrus is like i'm here too oh oh yeah yeah um people of earth is the worst structurally i think yeah um forget me not has one of the worst side villains because there's that's true no there's specifically that one trill that's like i'm just gonna murder you until he doesn't yeah until he's just like oh wait she's not that bad [ __ ] remember the trill yeah um die trying is the worst cause it's the one that i'm forgetting the most about well that was almost two episodes in one i was like where the federation hq but also let's save a seed ship yeah you like that one because it had family it had it had a hollow family oh yeah and it brought up the um lullaby so that was your favorite episode lullaby um scavengers has them is the worst for one of the worst for melodrama yeah um but i think overall the worst the episode that i liked the least yeah i think i am going to give it to sue carl that episode is like a nightmare when i think about it's like a nightmare like i'm living this nightmare again like it was like i woke up from a cold sweat i don't know if i can think of anything redeeming about that episode because so much of the season hinges on it and it's such a disappointment to me and i
i am so disappointed in the way that they coded the character sukhar well as well even though they try and justify it the way that they present it and the way that they've directed the performer it just makes me feel so bitter this has been an amazing season of star trek discovery we got introduced to a plethora of new people in the future new characters to add to the roster of characters that this show already has so many new characters that we had to eject a couple of the old ones for good measure who of the new people that we got to meet did you like and think was it was worth it i did end up liking book really really because this whole [ __ ] time you started the season being like i like book he's he's fun and every episode without him you feel like you miss him and then as i've been going along you've been like criticizing booker you're like you know i don't know what i've been thinking he's like a completely useless character and you've been like really railroading him is he a character that exists better when you don't actually have watched the episode recently and you think about him as like this better character that he actually is or is it because he's sexy it's because he's sexy isn't it you know who's even better than him and sexier admiral vance now that's a sexy man and a good character yes but he's like the only one i feel like it's worth going to the future to meet i can't forgive him for his speech in the last episode what about books my speeches that's just something that i'm like i don't know i don't know if i can go back from that um book does have yeah i think it is just a book is sexy um i do agree that vance is a better character overall but because of the way that they leave him to set up the next season that i'm apprehensive to say that he's my favorite um that we met and i think we both agree that it's not a dearer no
i think the most and it's not tsukal i think the worst i mean the best characters vance i think the worst new figure oh no no no no no no you know who is the best well who grudge grudge she's a queen but no queen who not tim roth oh cowboy cowboy i can't remember his name says a lot yeah because he's a villain i was gonna say the worst new character that we got introduced to has to be grey they there's no reason for grey to even be in this show other than they are going to be in the next season there's they they do nothing with grey as a character that i learned nothing about grey other than they existed but i don't know anything about them i could not tell you who they are what they want anything other than like they want to be seen but i can't give you a fully fledged character from grey i guess car cello yeah they can play the cello but i can't even remember if that's something they knew how to do or something they learned from their previous hosts so yeah that's why i was so sure but they're not like adira who's not genius okay i'm an art genius gray is a is a is an is a misstep they they could have actually done something with this character and they chose not to that's not a criticism that's that specific to gray though it's the most egregious when it comes to grey yeah but they could have done something with this character and they don't applies to almost every single character yeah and behind grey waiting in the wings is rin i don't even know why rin was in this show other than the actress of tilly it's her husband in real life and he just might have want to be on in the project at some point other than potential like nepotism i i don't even know why rin is is is a character outside of that singular episode and that's only why the actor plays rin that's not why the but you could write a whole character dedicated to do a single single actor and that's enough yeah uh an osira the worst villain in all of discovery and and and i and that's that's saying a lot because all the villains stink in discovery they all suck what about laurel she was never a villain remember although she might have been um structured as a rapist for her entire run in season one she's not an antagonist even though she hate uh remember laurel that's why i wanted to bring her up not because she's actually a villain just to be like hey so we're in a new season the best season and what makes it the best season to people the characters who was the best character this season who came out the best who did you enjoy the most who was someone that that was good in this season overall out of all of our characters who got to be grudged okay yeah i agree grudge shade or queen i don't even know who to say that's why like no genuinely great grudge has a very clear de nina she has a presence no i can't go with this i'm sorry i can't i can't i was i thought i could but as soon as you started this i realized i'm getting angry but seriously seriously this is the first season i walk out of going i don't know if any of the characters are good it's definitely not michael but he's used to we know it's not michael he used to be saruba he used to be sabrina but boy did they [ __ ] the bed with his character in these final few episodes and throughout the whole season they've been screwing him over making him look like an idiot and michael has the exact same journey that she has each season so paul is useless most of his stuff happens off screen paul becomes a father and so does he off-screen yeah um tilly what did tilly even get up to this season oh well tilly became first officer and then captain that's right but like that's like going up the ranks but like i can't think of like a theme that was explored with tilly or like an ark it was just like you progressed in power and now you've been reset to the power limit you had at the beginning of the season but you should have learnt lessons about being ready for authority i don't even know what she learned from her failures of leadership because it wasn't even her fault osiris somehow knew everything and was never explained she did how did tilly how did yeah how would saru have been done any better in that situation you wouldn't have it's exactly it's a stack deck and then yeah michael was the only one that if she was captain at that stage would have been able to do it because she's willing to bend the rules i and that's why i struggle with seeing season three as the best season i i walk out of it with a lot of issues but it all goes back to characters i think none of the characters arcs or purposes were served in these in any of these stories or no and there's a departure of none says a lot says a lot as well it says a lot like we went over that but like it really was like hey why did we even bother bringing her here in the future same with jojo two characters we brought from the past and we spent whole episodes saying goodbye to when you could have spent those two episodes giving gray or adira a deeper characterization who gives a [ __ ] about [ __ ] naan why did you even bring her into the future just to spend a whole episode saying goodbye to her you could have developed your characters that you have further if you had left her behind or left georgia behind but instead we had those episodes and the worst characters jojo by the way and she you know i'm glad she's gone i don't know bye-bye i don't know as bad as tilly was this season or paul or adira or even grey it doesn't get down to the depth of philippa giorgio regina whatever philip yeah of endor whatever [ __ ] they want to keep throwing at me space hitler it's because there was just too much dissonance with her character and her character is just one that i didn't even understand why she was in this season and the show said i agree now let's send her away just her character felt like the biggest generator of spinning the wheels or in one place i never felt like we were moving forward when we had giorgio in any of the scenes or episodes i felt like we were screeching to a halt and just saying we're just gonna rev the engine in this one spot and see the engines revving so that must mean something's happening but not really i think i think the audience has to have a satisfying experience of the season i think they have to feel it's come full circle that they've had an arc did anyone get better in the show we're talking about that many of them got worse but did anyone get better did anyone improve from this from their journeys of yesteryear did anyone get better here i think the character that comes closest to possibly being referred to as improved is hue to a point two point to fifteen percent so i was thinking eight but we're in the same ballpark fifteen percent loading bar he he he was the character that improved the most but is that a good thing because he improved from being a nothing character to being a slight character i i i don't know if that's something to commend at this point or not even this point in the show but like at this point though oh well papa you said it puppy no no puppy remember pee puppy remember that god no that's why i went with papa because i was just like i feel like he's he's not a dada he's a he's a papa but did they call him puppy no that was your joe's pet name for him when they used to [ __ ] in the mirror oh that's where i got that from don't be so binary in my universe he was pansexual and we had defcon level fun together and youtube papi did you just call me papi we're doing a lot of [ __ ] talking a lot of negative talking but there were good things in this season just like there have been good things in previous seasons i've already mentioned grudge and how she's a queen i know what more than you want from me my favorite moment of the show would have to be like a gender update right no genuine favorite stuff is when we actually got like competent captain saroo and i i think i really did enjoy saroo and tilly's relationship throughout this season to the point in which in that second episode when they're walking to eventually get to the bar yeah their conversations i found genuinely compelling i felt like they were earned and i felt like it made sense because these two characters are in fact very much the same character in a lot of ways they're both anxious people who may not be right for leadership but it's something that they yearn for and they're on the path to get and they mentor one another and i thought that conversation that they had in which she's confirmed like confessing how she feels bad about everything and her babbling and he's letting her know no you're good it was a moment of quiet restraint yes it was telling us a lot but i felt like it was communicated in a very honest way and was reflective also of what was going to happen in the conflict later in the episode about how those two characters were going to approach it and then jojo came in i think that's my favorite stuff and moment in in this season and if it was filled with more of that i would have loved this what about you this has a lot of stuff going on stuff that you've enjoyed as well any any standout things i can't think of anything new that we haven't mentioned at least briefly i agree with you about that scene with suru and tilly because it it feels slow in a way that star trek discovery does not take its time to do very often it's sad that the nice moments that we have are so few though or pretty much most of that second episode is decent to us we have a smattering of things here and there little character interactions that reminded us of what we liked about these people in those first two seasons i think i enjoyed a good amount of stuff with hugh in terms of him having conflicts with others via his medical professional opinion which were good oh i i i like the point points when hugh does the counseling approach to conflicts and but then that reminds you of the ptsd storyline and you're like oh forget it i did appreciate the way that they do use him in that way and they make references to his experience in a way that it makes it feel like it matters that he went through that and he's at this point now but i can't give it like too many points because i know that it didn't really do the work in the first place yeah this show this season's just filled to the broom with so many terrible moments i i don't even know what is my standout terrible thing in this season and i think like in the previous years of the show there was a standout bad decision made remember in season one it was a lot of the ash tireless stuff was very much the bad decisions made season two going back to the klingon stuff was a bad decision made as well as uh giorgio and as well as a few other things here is what i'm gonna go with though for this season the way that they deal with the sphere data that's what i'm gonna go with you mean that they don't they don't and they randomly like accelerate that plot and then backtrack that plot because like you know that all of a sudden the computer gets a voice and it isn't questioned and then they will use the sphere data sometimes and refer to it and others but not in a way where it feels like they've gotten used to it or yeah like they just it feels like the writers just mention it when they remember and it doesn't feel in a way where it's purposeful and then it doesn't feel like it's organic to anything the dots in the last couple of episodes just were there yeah like it feels like oh we just wanted to have a cute moment where tigner taro brings the dot back to life it doesn't feel like they had anything else either underneath that i think you're right i think the sphere data i think it's going to come back but i don't care they wasted their time it's still it still has to be there on discovery we say that but i could easily see them spending a whole episode about it oh at least in the first no no no i could see this as he's before oh yes hello guys i'm the sphere data and i've made myself a body and i want to leave the ship and travel the galaxy learning new information bye and off it goes i could easily see that happening a case-like storyline no no no a non-like storyline in which hey i'm in the show goodbye now oh i just want a ball of energy ryan my least favorite moment has to be in this final episode we just covered although i didn't get venomous about it it was so vile to me of the admiral speech by vance being like oh yeah she did it her way and it was the right way and you know i looked at you michael yeah i was angry that you weren't doing it the right way but you know what damned if your way didn't work too i didn't mention that because i think i've made my hatred for that moment very clear that is when i felt the pencil snap of the writers writing this down like they were just so vehemently writing this down that the pencil broke because of how hard they were pressing in this message on the paper i that that [ __ ] speech about like she did it her way and it was the right one now you did it that way too and i respect that and you know what you're a badass and you know the audience should respect the fact that you've been annoying the whole season and that you've been doing things in the most egregiously dramatic convenience way ever in terms of like you've been doing the shitty decisions so that more drama can happen unnecessary drama can happen but that was good i i just kind of abide by that i think it was a very patronizing speech by the show like not even at michael just felt like he was the writer was talking to me and saying i did a good job with michael's ark see that character written by me said so okay yeah whatever i mean this show is the show we're called yum yum rachel because of the yum yum moment what would you say was the yum yum moment or incident that stood out the most to you in this season the show is filled to the brim with them there's she's a queen she's a queen she's the queen i would say that specifically the one where he kicks yeah kicks him out of the elevator i like i feel like i have to go with that one because that's the one that i remember the best but what's on your mind oh when georgia blinked holograms to death um i think it's the dumbest thing i've ever seen in star trek um move over little puppy dog in a unicorn costume as an alien georgio blinking holograms to death is the yum yum because it also feels like it comes out of [ __ ] nowhere and it doesn't matter like here's something at the end of the season three or four of our main characters are trapped inside a holodeck why don't they just blink it off why do they even need sukhol to turn it off if they they could just [ __ ] blink real fast apparently it's a known problem that giorgio knows you know that's the kind of thing where it's like it was there to make the character look smart but it only made the show look dumb and the universe looked dumb and remind me that oh that's right humans are in humans are dumb blinking at their harmonic rate disrupts the hollow protocols creating a reference loop that shuts them down upgrade your programs and stop wasting my time what changed the most on this rewatch you know we walked in saying a lot of things about what we liked and didn't like but what did you recognize the most when re-watching it what was what was garnered the most on a re-watch value what had changed i don't know
like in terms of i walked in thinking that this was a better season than i am thinking that it is now yeah but that's happened from the other two seasons as well why does it change so much on a re-watch is it just because we know what the full picture is and they don't earn the way that they get there i think the main reason is this simple thing when we're re-watching it we can't give it excuses hmm no that's a damning way to say it you can't give it the excuse of oh well i'm sure at the end of the season they'll pull it all together oh oh i'm sure that the next episode will explain what that was oh i'm sure that the sphere data will come back in a meaningful way you're right it's harder to give excuses to a show where you know that those excuses don't pay off yeah which is why we haven't been slamming the sphere data as much because it's like oh well maybe next season no i don't and it's just like oh well joe's gone now so section 31 show it's not as entertaining to [ __ ] on her character michael's now captain so that's her journey there done and i'm sure they'll do the exact same storyline with her wondering if she should reject the authority or accept it and if she's a good captain or not and yeah i don't even know how much saru will be in the next season i was listening back to our old episodes from season one recently i just felt like what were we thinking back then what were some issues we were having and there were issues we were having that we had more so in this season and that i realized yes this has always been there but this re-watch of this particular season really highlighted to me the issue we've had it from day one so many things happen off screen and we have to take the word that that matters in some way and season three i i knew that was happening when we were first watching it but it wasn't a complaint i had i was just like oh yeah yeah but when are we watching it oh [ __ ] it felt so like that's another reason why this season feels so empty to me like the world is so many thrilling things that literally need to be shown for the plot to make sense or be satisfying happen happened off-screen they just say michael and book save the day such an incomplete jigsaw puzzle and it's just a mess and i think we've had this issue in the past but there was things that um what they did have were better substitutions of things well here like you spend 20 to 30 minutes of a whole episode just explaining why michael has changed instead of instead of just showing it honestly like again show don't tell but here that was really like i felt like such an idiot watching it back because i was like how did i not get so angry by the by about this in that first watching of it it's because i was making excuses i'm like oh well i'm sure that you know the people of earth episode felt like an after-school special and they left things to the last minute and showed things off screen because i'm sure earth will factor into the story later somehow they did not so when you go back and watch people of earth you just go oh michael and book did this thing off screen oh because they were lazy or they didn't have the budget or whatever excuse we can make it's an excuse and i think that's just so like interesting about the season is upon the rewatch is they just cut corners so much more than recent like than in in the previous seasons we had these issues too but we also talked about what was there more often in this season we kept talking about so much of what wasn't here and that should have been here needed to be here and less so about what was actually there because what was actually there was so was so slight and small the rewatch squashes our hope so you're saying you wouldn't watch this season again [ __ ] no you don't want me to fire it up right now i think i think the audience has to have a satisfying experience of the season i think they have to feel it's come full circle what's that rachel i can hear the huda let's talk about hugh colbert season three better than he has been in any other season better but still doesn't get more than 15 on the progress bar towards becoming a character you know i think i said most of it in our previous episode i'm not interested in hugh culber they've had three seasons they could have made him a far more interesting character than they have we've had whiffs of him being interesting we've had tinges of him of a as a character in this season better than the nun we had before but like that i think that the blogs did a lot of that work yeah but you know it's not good you know what i think about with you back in the day well even now people would say well ryan they don't have enough time you see back in the old days so what you care about the back in the old days they could have a whole episode about hugh colbert because they had 26 episodes a season so there was more time blah blah blah blah blah where three seasons in they've focused on him so little and now that they are slightly focusing on him it just highlights how much they didn't in the past but i still reject it i still reject it because i look back on something like i know people get tired of it babylon 5. babylon 5 the doctor was not in every [ __ ] episode of the show but in the first season you have two prominent episodes early on just two episodes just based on him and i knew instantly who he was what he was about and what he wanted and everything about what i needed to know about that character you three seasons in i'm still trying to figure out what kind of doctor he is like what's his specialty what's his interests what's his ideology still figuring it out three seasons in i'm just not interested in in in hugh but he did get better in the season he did do you think that they'll continue to better his character or do you think that they're pleased with this i think this is it what about papa hugh they can explore that next season of what he what he's gonna be like as a father i think that's gonna fall back more more on stamets yeah i mean that's what it was this season yeah but i think hugh is gonna continue to be there i promise you it's all good what would you give this season a yum being bad or yum yum being good yum yum best season
get to yum i don't know what you gave the other two seeds like i remember now but whatever yum yum yum two yums that bad huh um well no it's a yum yum yum mine is a yum yum this is the worst season i'll never want to watch this again i don't even want to watch any of them again i don't want to talk about i don't even want to watch season four again and you it's not even out yet and you're gonna make me watch it twice what do you think's gonna happen like what do you think the future or season four is gonna like of star trek discovery not just season four where do you see this all going it's gone nowhere so i think it's gonna continue to go nowhere but we've got captain michael now and her and paul could have some dramas and paul and hugh can have some dramas and tilly's going to feel bad about how she let everyone down as captain and then we have the dogs you mean that thing that like gene rottenberry said that he never wanted oh interpersonal conflicts but who cares what gene roddenberry
but we have the quote from gene at the end oh when they directly evoke gene the show itself yeah it's hard not to think about him huh when the show directly evokes him and and references him what do you want from star trek discovery at this point like where can this go what do you think i genuinely don't know my first thought when you answered asked me that question was to answer with cancel it all all i can see in the future of star trek discovery well next season they said that they're going to have an antagonist that was more of like a like not a person but like a an event or a like a thing and all i can think of is so help me god if they're doing like a virus season so help me [ __ ] god if they try to do any commentary on covid i think they're just gonna fall flat on their faces the only thing i see in the future of star trek discovery this is how i see it ending this is how i see the series as a whole ending well i thought that it was gonna end with michael becoming the captain so that the revolving captain chair stops no no here's how i see it ending this is the only image i see shot of michael smiling and crying credits oh oh yes that's gonna be it and that's all i see for the show is that image in my brain like that's the whole show from this point like there's no i don't see suru i don't see anyone else all i see is michael tearfully yet joyously smiling like i'm victorious but also i'm emotional i think that's the end of our episode too yeah that's it i'm so happy to be over this rachel wagon thank you ryan where can people find us on the internet rachel oh they can take a look at those links in the description or find us on various social medias at yum yum puddle yum yum podcast including twitter instagram over on our subreddit and if you want to support the show unless it get access to even more content from us that's star trek related and non-star trek related you can do that by supporting us on a patreon yeah we'll be coming out next episode with our update on what the future of our podcast will be what show we're moving on to nandi already knows next nandi already knows you can go to our patreon and listen to this episode early as well as well as some extra bonus content that will also be coming out on the feed in the next few episodes times but yes we are progressing we are going past star trek discovery can't go any further this is it there's no short trick so this is it for the time being like we said we will be i'm a free elf you're a free elf i'm a free elf too um but i'm more of a nandy elf so i'm glad that this is over rach i am somewhat looking towards season four but in a way where i'm like here's here's what i mean what i love about this time now is we are in as we recall this in an era where there's no new star treks on yeah and i am happy about that because i felt something that you wanted so long you're happy to not be in the swamp of star trek's modern iteration you've won a new star trek for so many years and it's been so bad that you would rather have nothing
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