Yum Yum Podcast

Yum Yum Trek: Su'Kal

Episode Summary

The writers must face their biggest challenge yet! Revealing the cause of The Burn! SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast

Episode Notes

Welcome aboard the Starship Yum Yum in which we your intrepid hosts Ryan and Rachel Sliwinski try to break down episodes of Star Trek: Discovery without having a breakdown ourselves. This week on Yum Yum Trek we discuss “Su'Kal“ 
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Episode Transcription

hello rachel hi ryan how are you um you know what i have this weird thing on my face oh no are you dying of radiation maybe we better get you some medication for that real quick let me just prescribe you some pills they'll sort you out really really well even though you've been heavily affected by it you should be fine uh we're being just gotta go in the dna reset yeah that was cool yeah just ravel your noodles back up yeah yeah so we are the yum yum podcast likingly because of the iconic phrase yum yum from star trek discovery's second season from that character naan remember naan remember none went bye-bye no none went yum yum actually so and i also said goodbye yeah yum yum so i am ryan and that is rachel and we are re-watching star trek discovery one episode at a time and talking about it via that capacity seeing how the show holds up when you view it a second time round so that does mean spoilers and all for star trek discovery as a whole for this moment in time there are only three seasons and we are nearing the end of this third season isn't that right rachel yes so what episode are we going to be discussing for this one what episode of star trek discovery are we revisiting it's season 3 episode 11 titled su-cal the imdb synopsis for this episode is the dodo


you froze you're like the imdb synopsis for this one is it's scary no i was glitching out like a hollow thank you very much uh i knew that discovery ventures to the very beginning


good luck discovery ventures to the verubin nebula where burnham ceru and colbert make a shocking realization about the origin of the burn and the rest of the crew faces an unexpected threat yeah yeah the unexpected threat i almost forgot so su-cal is the episode episode 11 of this 13-episode season rachel when we first watched this episode i remember it quite vividly it was around the christmas time it was late in the evening episode aired on december 24th at least in america uh we watched it around that holiday time late afternoon we went on a walk afterwards to discuss what we thought of the episode and my thoughts at that moment in time were it was very bad i thought it was agonizingly long and i really said to myself and to you how is this the third last episode of the season and not the final episode with the fact that it answers all the questions and yet there's still more to go it's he caused the burn but we're not meant to have figured out how what caused him to cause the burn i mean it's very obvious the fact it takes two more episodes to figure this out is for the characters to is uh so i didn't like this episode originally what about you i didn't like it then and i didn't like it now what about it didn't you like then and is it still holding true now i thought it was really stupid and really boring the first time and this time so my my opinion is relatively hell the same i did find a few more things that i slightly enjoyed um they still have caveats but i didn't despise it as much on the re-watch you know i'm in an interesting place with star trek discovery i'm feeling very positive and generous and and bountiful i watched this episode today and i was smiling from ear to ear i was really enjoying this episode i've completely flipped around on it and what i really loved about it was the sense of closure that i had when i finished it off because it ends on a cliff hangout ryan no no no that i had which is i know that i'll never watch this again and i'll never have to watch this again oh and i feel so [ __ ] good and when i was sitting down for this i was smiling because i'm looking at stuff that i absolutely do not like and noticing in my brain hey ryan see that scene there you'll never have to watch that scene again after this discussion see that scene there you'll never have to view it again and i was so thrilled that really changed my mindset on watching it sitting down and actually seeing things play out knowing where they'll go and knowing how unsatisfying it is i was absolutely over the moon because i will never ever ever have to watch this again ever and isn't that great you know you know that you're never going to have to see this shitty piece of entertainment again in your life it's over now yeah and isn't that i i don't know it really made me happy knowing that sukhal will never be in my life again i'm glad you found some happiness i really did i really did i did not what because why did you not love the end credits like i did that was my favorite scene when the credits came on and the show ended with a line that was like [ __ ] tried oh or the line was we're too late the ultimate hack writer's line for cliffhanger ending too late they should have really ended the episode no no they should have started this episode with the line here we go again that would have been that would have been like really cohesive in the hacky writing department but damn they didn't do it this time around maybe next episode ryan is that just further proof that they can't even do that right i can't do anything right even hack writing even the hacky writing no no no um this is so [ __ ] [ __ ] okay episode was garbage let's start at the beginning shall we yeah can you remember the beginning of the episode it picks up right where the last episode ended at georgio's memorial and it is stamitz talking to adira saying hey everybody's here for you everybody i mean they're here for georgio but okay everybody cares about you if they can care for a dictator and a [ __ ] fuhrer then they can care for you yeah you aren't on the outside you are part of this family now i mean sure grey's abandoned you and i'm only a parental figure in the sense that i see you when we go to work but like


gray appears again


gray's like here again for why why oh because the story decided that they can be back in the show now for really no reason i mean because we needed adira to have some challenge i guess we needed adira to express more than one emotion which has been like tween emotion now now they can express joy and confusion and angst in a different way than they've been allowed to in the previous few episodes oh it's always just angst no it's always angst it's always angst no matter what it has a kind of veneer of something else it's always angst really why is this here that scene this whole story about gray being this ghostly lover from the past that's hung around then has disappeared now has reappeared again and adira has just been wandering around as a completely nonchalant useless character in terms of they have no individuality of their own to the point in which they need a dead ghost lover or they need a parental figure why can't you just be a genius that's all yeah why can't adira just be a functioning person of their own right why does adira need to be defined by the others around them and does any of this um seeking definition through other people ever come up really in this episode for adira no why is this here why is this story constructed the way it is remind us who adirae is so when they appear at the end of the episode to deliver the medication the medication which they somehow magically knew that they needed to put in there now yeah please explain that one to us fans how did adira know information that was not communicated to the ship and to them how did how did adira know to do that how did the dear know that they were in a holodeck program that has masked their medication from them how did the dear know that do they not have pockets oh no i know i know the answer and that was the solution i know the answer to that question uh they are tween genius so that's the answer guys they're kind of like the bomb huh oh they figured it out is this hope they deciphered something from comms why did gray disappear from a narrative perspective let's let's just not even err on the side that there might have been behind the scenes production stuff from a writing perspective why why is why is grey not a character and then one that just is not in the show that's very different questions ryan yeah i'm just gonna talk about why i think they wrote him out for a few episodes which is partially what i said before of they need adiro to face some kind of interpersonal challenge because that's what you have to write in a drama yeah so it is just for the sake of causing manufactured drama that doesn't actually thematically tie into anything it is just there to pat out time i think the future if i had to bet on it is gonna hold more drama i know the answer in my brain this is the answer to me why gray is written out for several episodes and comes back in just walking and being like hey they say it in the episode it's about being seen i'm not being able to be seen by others you aren't being able to be seen for who you really are it is a whole entire journey about being able to be seen so gray literally disappeared for several episodes because they felt so unseen that they hid themselves away so that he can come back in these final two episodes just to remind us that he is in the show so that when they go down to the planet with the holodeck and the holodeck can make them actually be seen the masses that watch this show will have in their brain that theme of being recognized being seen for who you truly are and then you can clap and say they did it they made grey being able to be seen by hugh and saroo and all these other characters grey is literally seen that is why grey disappeared for several episodes and is not a character gray only serves to hammer in a theme gray isn't an individual character i mean literally gray is is a symbiotic character with adira who doesn't have their own character either because they need to be defined by other characters one of which is grey who's a non-character only exists a hammer and a theme and the other one is stamets whose entire character has entirely flipped their perspective off screen to accept adira as this surrogate child and treats adira like a four-year-old with cuckoo baby like dialogue at them in which he whisper talks and gives loving hand gestures and and and strokes on the on the back and all of that and it's like where does this come from and it's because it all ties into the reverse engineering which is we want to hit these themes we want to hit these messages how do we do that oh well we want to get to those let's just course correct every single character involved to get to those beats it's a very cynical and very dry and very boring boring approach from a writing perspective to hit those themes they're not interested in actually fleshing out or making characters along the way as long as you get that moment at the end which is gray is being able to be seen the audience will clap because hey i recognized that was a conflict that was happening in an episode before so they've resolved that conflict now i mean damned if it matters that the conflict was happening to a non-character damned if it happened to like to the point in which there was so much story that could have been shown on screen but they decided to do it off-screen as long as you get the result that's all that matters not the journey not the story being told it's only the conclusion it's only the end it's only when you open the mystery box ryan the idiom is the ends just defy the means so we don't need to worry about the journey or the metaphysics we don't have time for either of them no no but you know what a story really isn't about what the journey no [ __ ] growth of the characters or even knowledge of them tested in them getting to know them making them feel like they're actual people here's something and do you remember this do you genuinely remember this or because i sarcastically made us remember this which is adira is an art genius remember that's a character trait that we've never seen again oh they can play an instrument because grey can yeah but that doesn't that but that wasn't their character trait no their character trait was that they were an art genius we've never seen that come back up again it's never been yeah exactly it's never been relevant again that is her being an art genius they literally said you're an art genius and then adira said out loud i'm an art genius because they had to [ __ ] off i don't believe you it's true okay i'm an art genius at the beginning of this episode they arrive at the verubulan nebula and the first course of action that they take is let's just [ __ ] drive into the thing willy-nilly let's not stop and survey and look at our surroundings and do the things that a starfleet officer would do and the justification for this is oh sure is emotional he's he's he's compromised because there's a living person inside of that nebula that could be a kelpian his emotions are overwrought that is the reverse engineering again they knew as writers they wanted the season to end the way that they wanted it which is to might have michael in the captain's revolving captain's chair and saroo has to be compromised enough for it to be warranted the change of positions because from the very beginning ceru's entire character arc has been gaining confidence in leadership so how do you kick him out of the position of leadership when you know you know that you want that to be the outcome as a writer you know that's what you want even if it goes against the character journey and the ark and what the audience is enjoying or even the character themselves you want that ending how do you do that you manufacture drama and you manufacture character faults and you amplify little things about the character to be massive things so sure has evolved and now he has emotions that are exploding out of the wazoo and he has such a homesick attachment to the idea of what is a kelpie in the future that he is willing to just drive the ship into the nebula and [ __ ] everything up so that the plot can happen that's the only reason if they did it like a normal show including star trek discovery in the past of parking the ship outside scanning it sending probes in figuring out that bookship could go in much easier than theirs and giving him medication to survive the radiation there wouldn't be a plot that's the reason none of that happens none of the logical stuff none of the stuff that doesn't make our characters look like [ __ ] idiots they're willing to make the characters look like idiots time and time again because we need the spectacular we need to get to that ending and we need to make it spectacular on the way we need the spectacle and we need the plot to happen screw the characters they are just objects to get us to the end they're not actually just things that are important things to stick in the picture they're things they don't see them as people these characters they don't feel like they it does it doesn't feel like they even think that they're real in any way they are just pieces on a board to move around to get to the end game i think only the actors may feel like their characters are people because they spend so much time embodying them and trying to of course figure it out but the writers i doubt i doubt they can talk in empty platitudes about the personhood of every individual character but they're willing to screw over that just to get to the drama just to get to the end point just to justify the stupid decisions made along the way does saroo driving into the nebula and [ __ ] up the shields and all that so they can't just go in there and get so-called out easy peasy that is what makes this whole su-call journey frustrating for me is it is prolonged this goes for three episodes and it only needed to go for one and the reason it goes for three is because [ __ ] ceru gets emotional [ __ ] everything up and then osira comes in very conveniently monae adds osiris comes in and very conveniently knows the layout of the ship completely knows exactly how the spore drive works and conveniently knows that paul stamets is the one that operates it how does osara know this because osiris scanned the ship once she scanned the ship once that's not enough so she knows exactly where to transport those two guards so that they can grab your stamina how would you know that and pull him away from the goo how would you know that with a scan how would you know that specific area that is like any other engineering lab 100 years in the future ryan and she's evil okay few people are just evil so it's nice to kind of layer it and have reasons behind her actions uh osiris feels very strongly about a lot of things you know especially her people that she's fiercely protective of um and she's worked really really hard as have her you know people to sort of to get to the position that they're in right now and and so we will see how that develops by the end of the by the end of the season remember the bit in this episode where they revealed that the discovery can cloak now and they did it like now not when several episodes back they mentioned that this ship has all this new technology they never mentioned the quote yeah since the refit don't we have a cloak yeah con come on for people who are fans of discovery wasn't that lazy just like last second oh they got to see a cool thing no no what they got to see is an addition to the cannon starfleet has cloaking technology they got it clap like a seal and wait for the fish to be thrown to you no it's lazy because they introduce it as a deus ex machina last second and then it's even stupider because what do both of the ships do while cloaked they stay in the same [ __ ] position it makes osira who's supposed to be a threatening intelligent villain look like a dumbass and it makes tilly who's supposed to be this fresh-faced ensign who's gone over her head in the captain's chair but every single person says no you're capable and smart you deserve this chair it makes her look like a [ __ ] idiot too it just makes again because the plot needs to happen we're willing to sacrifice our character's integrity for it to happen we're willing to make them look stupid for it to happen there are a lot of decisions in this episode that seem to be influenced by vegetarian issues of them overspending in some areas namely the the kelp monster so you know we only get the one shot of them de-cloaking and cloaking in the first place and that's the exact same angle and then they get to uh re-use footage from short track too oh yeah yeah yeah for serious flashbacks let's talk about that budget shall we this season we've been really complaining that they either are lazy or have a lower budget because a lot of things happen off screen and a lot of things important happened off screen and i remember people talking when this aired about that episode the sanctuary saying this episode's so cheap they're just in the forest and they're shooting at some guy's house and then this episode comes along sue carl comes along and it was like applauded because like oh this is where they were saving that budget this is where all the budget was going to this movie quality level cgi creature that's running around and scaring people and it is impressive i think that creature looks amazing i think it's really clever i think it's really smart like i love the look of it i love the sound design i love that you can tell it was like a real person that they've you know done the motion capture or something over i still would have liked it better if it was mixed with practical yeah that's just me but this is the rub is this creature and this cgi holodeck world important to the story not even that significant to the canon not even that no influence on the episode not that is sacrificing 10 episodes worth of quality storytelling because you don't have the time money or effort in it worth that is it worth sacrificing 10 episodes of storytelling to have a cool cgi effect in this episode cbs says yes because that's what it comes down to that's what comes down to there's been so many moments in this in which it's either because because of laziness or budgetary reasons that's that important storytelling moments have been clearly sacrificed or excised or non-existent and what was it all for so that you could get a special cgi creature that in the end doesn't really contribute or matter it's cool it adds thematic stuff but really answer it's really look into your heart and say clearly was this creature worth sacrificing 10 episodes worth of storytelling every single episode leading up to this moment has had a moment think that there's 10 episodes of storytelling in these episodes yeah you're right but in every single episode we've had many moments where it's like they couldn't afford to tell that bit they didn't have the money or they were too lazy and it was all for what for a creature that's covered in cgi smoke and kelp you know yes there's there's a tremendous amount of time and effort and frankly love put into all the cg work on the show that is not where we start the cg work on the show is there to support the emotional story period let's talk about osira what about the green [ __ ] that that is all that they put to her osiris knows all out of nowhere and it's it's maybe people are unforgicioned oh sarah maybe i'm forgetting the queen of the emerald chain um maybe i've forgotten and the next episode will slap me in the face and say you stupid idiot ryan don't you remember this informant was on the ship but for most of the time she just has information that doesn't make any sense and she just wins because she has information that we have no understanding as an audience how she knows that i know that because i've watched the show but how does osira know that she hasn't watched the show she doesn't know these things how does she know that the spore drive uses a human component to drive it how does she know that is pole stamets how does she know that the sport drive is located in this specific lab that is identical to many others he wasn't on the ship though and he wasn't even in this episode he's a super genius no no what you're doing there is trying to fill in the blanks where the writers didn't yeah you're just trying to make sense of something that they didn't bother to put sense into they just wanted you to think osiris bad and she is a badass and she's wicked so she knows everything she's super smart she's so clever that she stayed cloaked in the same position that's how clever she is that's how clever she is and don't worry tilly was even more clever by doing the exact same [ __ ] thing it's embarrassing um is osira better now because in this she did have more of a personality she was kind of like cheeky and there was that whole back and forth of um tilly and her on the view screens sassing off against one another what did you think of that rachel you know the phrase dull as dishwater yeah it's slightly less dirty dishwater so it's still dull but it's not as dull as dishwater you know what i mean yeah when i watch that sequence those two sequences which they sass off against each other and this is like seeing tilly take leadership let's skip freud let's skip freud like you know what i thought to myself cake is eternal no no no no what i thought to myself was deanna troy crusher [ __ ] um janeway uh major kira dax all these great female characters that we've seen take leadership leadership positions have either commanded the ship or had to negotiate with hostile forces some of those characters are i think are weak female characters like deanna troy but all of them were so much better at leadership and less embarrassing than tilly i just watched that scene and i just went wow this really does feel like writer's writing for teenage girls in a high school environment you know what i'm saying like could you imagine janeway having a having that kind of sass off with an opponent could you imagine major kira or even deanna troy crusher could you imagine that no you can't because even though some of those characters aren't the greatest they weren't when they took leadership they weren't pathetic and the people who were arguing against also weren't pathetic when i watched it all i could say the word i describe is cringe it's the best word to describe it's cringe hearing these two women sass off against each other like they're in mean girls it's who here has been personally victimized by star trek discovery yeah me a certain 19th century earth neurologist would say that you've just proven the idea of projection you tell me i'm a fraud because deep down inside you kind of feel like a fraud it's interesting it's not just a human defense mechanism it's galactic captain tilly um she fails um saroo as captain fails um everyone fails except for michael so my question is in the she's going to be the best captain right in the future when they eventually want to explore more of her captaincy and whatever saroo wants to do and all of that are you at all interested well i'm not interested in tilly at all anymore so no you're not interested to see how she picks herself back up and manages to be a good first officer or be a good captain nah this didn't entice you she had some badass moments right she stood her ground and she did figure out a way to solve the problem that felt like only tilly would think of this yeah because the writers only gave tilly those pieces of information yeah so are you not interested no why for that reason i know that there's no stakes i don't care about tilly as a person i don't care about the rest of the crew it doesn't feel like for [ __ ] up she's gonna lose any position in the first place so her succeeding at something isn't gonna have any big effect on me either because a part of like being attached to a character is feeling their wins and their losses yeah for me what it comes down to for every character but i used tilly and saroo because out of the main crew of characters their arcs their journeys are the most obvious and well defined which are their votes very similar yeah they're both gaining confidence and propelling towards a higher position of power i.e the captain's chair i.e leadership and it's very clear and it's very fun to watch because there's always something fun to watch about these socially anxious characters getting over that and being able to be competent and i don't think there's any interest from my end to see them grow any further because the writers are willing to sacrifice and burn all of that to the [ __ ] ground and make those characters failures so that michael the main character can succeed and yes michael burnham is the protagonist of the show and you should focus on her i agree with that i don't like her but that's the show what i don't care for is making the other characters with well-defined arcs failures just so that that character can be a success i know in an arc in a story you have to have ebbs and flows you have to have those wins and losses but i don't get the sense that that's what this is from the writers i get the sense that they're just willing to break tilly and to break saroo in half to get to the end which is making michael succeed so i'm not interested because maybe one day we will see these characters go through success again but i'm also knowing in my heart that the riders are willing to screw them over for no reason other than just for the drama of it and other and just for michael to win at the end for michael to be the badass at the end for michael to be the cool one and i'm not interested in seeing characters i like and arcs that could be great just thrown in the [ __ ] garbage just for that is there some connection to camera now that maybe ooh maybe ambassador uh uh suru for for kamen r to the federation one day there's many options many places we can go with it and i i'm looking forward to that what's ahead michael saroo and hugh beam down to this planet this dilithium necessary yes yes to the ship okay landed on the planet the radiation would kill them pretty quickly well no i'm pretty sure the exact line was that they would be dying as a slow painful death by now okay or at least a painful death yes uh we're splitting hairs at this point they're gonna be dead no matter what they beam down to this ship and before they know it oh oh my god rachel look what happened they've entered a star trek discovery [ __ ] nonsense thing which is wouldn't it be cool if if they beamed into the planet they were like in a little red riding hood kind of world oh that would be cool what happens if michael was actually wearing a little red riding hood outfit oh awesome oh we're so small oh what about something all different kinds of aliens oh that's awesome awesome why i don't know it would be cool wouldn't it be cool if suru was a human and michael was yeah it's a program we can do anything we want we program him we programmed them to look like things that sukhar would be comfortable with even though he knows what other even though there are other kelpian programs even though their other human programs make him because it would be cool so our characters beamed down into a situation because it would be cool and they wanted to spend the budget on spooky monsters and labyrinths and staircases and smoke and cgi castles um all this is in service it was meant to be called the citadel citadel originally um and this is all in service of our main crew of characters finding the lone survivor who was once a child and has now grown up but still has the mental state of a child and the fears of a child he tears out his name for ages yes yes and they find sukhal sukhal who's 125 years old and yet looks younger than saru weirdly um and younger than his dad who for a fact never got to be that old saroo's dad remember this is the um saroo's never seen a kelpian that old how old is the room meant to be at this point we don't know but he's not over a hundred that's for sure um but that's splitting hairs again this is all in service of the crew coming down being trapped on the planet and finding out that sukhal is the reason for the burn what and how is sukhoi the reason for the burn


he screamed real loud one time and his sonic burst scream rippled through the subspace and somehow it affects dilithium because he's affected by dilithium because his dna adapted when his cells were multiplying and dividing in utero the radiation affected them i'm pretty sure that's what hugh says what was your reaction to the burn reveal when it first happened do you remember how you felt somehow i was like this is


as stupid i was expecting but also even more stupid yeah like somehow it was like yeah this is the kind of thing that i expected but it's even worse in ways that i didn't expect like the stupidity of it being just one person and an accident which i think that could still work but the fact that it's like through this radiation manipulation on a dilithium planet that's inside of a nebula yeah like the contrived levels of making this situation


were just astounding because i was just like you've got so many different things going on here and basically none of them make complete sense on their own and you've just chucked them all in and going well here you go well my three primary thoughts and they still ring true the first one is this is hilariously stupid the second one was um how was this fun um and the third one was how was i supposed to be able to guess that and all of those are very important on the initial watch and on the re-watch it is dumb the burn is dumb oh this is the best season of the show ryan no no no the whole show hinges on the reveal that the entire galaxy got [ __ ] in the ass because a little boy screamed real loud one time it's dumb the reason it's dumb i mean it just looks dumb but come on i don't think i need to explain it any further a boy cried one time and the federation collapsed over practically in one night stupid why is this how is this fun and what i mean by that is we don't like the mystery box format that this show hasn't um deployed many a times but i can understand how people have fun with this because they analyze it they comb over the thing and look for little details that can lead them to the third thing which is how was i supposed to figure this out how is anyone supposed to be able to guess this one i don't like the first season of discovery i don't like lorca being a mirror verse captain i don't like the red angel but when you re-watch it and if you're a keen-eyed viewer when you first saw it you saw the steps that led to those reveals even if they were stupid this how am i supposed to have figured out that a little boy cried so hard one time was the cause of the burn and when i re-watch it there's nothing there right until this episode all of it is just there's an assumption that you've made i think i think at least mainly on the part of the writers which is that they want you to have been able to figure it out no no no it doesn't even matter if it's that they want they know not to be able to let us the audience see how these things led to these things i don't think they want to do that i don't think they care about that that's the assumption that i think you're making that they will want to leave those breadcrumbs that they want some re-watch value in terms of the mystery i think they don't care about that because they are so much more focused on the character developments and because we aren't interested in the characters are willing to [ __ ] over the character development for this reveal it's all in service of the end justifying the means they don't give a [ __ ] about the character development we just went on a whole tirade about suru and tilly they're willing to wipe their arse all over character development for the reveal of the burn and to kick suru off the chair and shoot osiris in the face i don't think they see it that way i think they see it as this is the state of the world and they need to be able to help restore the federation which involves identifying the cause of the burn because michael says so they can't repair anything because michael says so until they know the cause because otherwise it's just going to continue to fester right and they need to get rid of the emerald change chain because vance and book say that they're really bad and we see them kill a bunch of people right yep so we need that and you know what ceru's been captain for a while now he's confident as a leader and he's emotional so we need him to face a new challenge we need to make him a leader within his community and i you know what like the challenge of fatherhood they don't see it as them undoing the work that's done with suru it's giving him a new challenge to face one that's unlike anything that he thought that he would experience because the audience would want yeah well no i'm wrong maybe we want papa yeah and maybe i also wanted to see him actually [ __ ] succeed in the ark that's been his entire character but screw that throw that out the bin throw that into the bin i get what you're saying you that's what okay but that still doesn't negate the points that i'm having as a viewer and as someone re-watching the show how was i supposed to guess this i wasn't no no rachel i wasn't supposed to guess this so how am i supposed to have fun with this i'm not supposed to have any fun i guess and thus i go back to the call is meant to be enough fun rachel even a lot of the die hard discovery stop making me defend this [ __ ] but even a lot of die hard discovery fans yeah i've seen many of them agree the reveal of the burn was stupid and pointless and dumb because it it it does that it how was i supposed to guess this how was i supposed to have fun with this and it all goes back to the first point i have which is this is hilariously stupid because oh absolutely because this is what shows are supposed to be they know their audience too they're three seasons in they've teed up their audience to look for the details remember remember last episode we had with uh good friends of starfleet underground they told us this show has trained you to look out for the references and to get that cult synapses in your brain pumping with i remember that i figured that out because i looked at these little details the newspaper had the thing from tos there's no fun here watching season three when you're looking at it in the terms of what season three is which is what is the burn because there's no way you could gather all the little pieces even on a re-watch to go oh yes of course it was the fact that a little boy cried so hard no so it's just stupid bodies adapt all this dilithium and subspace radiation his cells acclimatized to it in utero as they divided but he was only a child then something must have happened to trigger him i've heard this and i want to know your opinion on this the people who do defend the sukhoi crying real loud say this and i've i've thought about this a lot which is it works thematically for the grander season because the season has been touching upon the themes of loneliness and trauma and so what it what a great way of exploring that by having a character whose trauma and loneliness loneliness caused a galactic wide um event that that did the exact same thing we've been seeing this thing those themes play out again and again throughout the season rippling like a wave so that makes it all okay that's um sukhol crying caused the burn because it works thematically what do you think about that it doesn't matter because i don't care the show doesn't make me care i don't care about the characters thus even with those thematic links it just feels lazy and trite yeah if anything that defense makes me go well let's that just makes it even more [ __ ] stupid to me yeah my counter to that is you can have something be thematically metaphorically or writing wise on brand and on point but sometimes a stupid thing is too stupid to ignore star trek five the final frontier has a lot of thematic on point moments but does that make that film a genius thing or does it make it one of the worst star trek films nemesis still fun to me a lot of the star trek movies that are bad like nemesis or insurrection or into darkness boring or or star trek five a lot of them have themes that they're hitting and a lot of them have goofy [ __ ] that ties into those themes but does that make those things good no you can still hit your theme but it can still be stupid or bad and i'm sorry sue cole's theme of trauma and him crying so loud that he's disconnected everyone from each other interesting on paper but the way that the show's been constructed and the visual of seeing this man-child cry out loud and the sonic beam shoot from his head the sense of dread that i had when i saw that of being like you've got to be [ __ ] kidding me that he cried so loud and then it spends three whole episodes flicking its belly button going maybe that is the case maybe it is me me me me me what caused him to do the cry though me me it's obviously his mum died we got it we've got it as soon as we found out that he had a mum jesus christ we need to spend another two hours flicking over that one oh yeah it really was like on the first watch as soon as saru said that those markings were because she was pregnant it's like okay i immediately know the rest of this and then the show treats me like i'm so [ __ ] stupid that i can't piece two things together and we gotta no no it's not even i don't even think it's that they think you're stupid they need to get to 13 episodes well that too so but they're free they need to treat me like i'm that stupid in order to pat it out and again i don't even think if they're treating you stupid they're tying it into how you're supposed to emotionally feel not how you're supposed to logically look at this because we're looking at this from a very no longer discovery are we no no we're supposed to cry at the fact that he cried so loud that he destroyed the universe she knew you would be frightened to see her like that she wanted you to feel connected loved i was alone


you are no longer alone i gotta talk about it it's gotta come up it's gotta come up we'll talk about in this episode uh uh you know now yes was it an annoying thing to you that at no point in this journey did they just consider just kill sukhal and move on because it frustrated me to tears there were so many moments i know i know they can't they're good characters they're they're good guys but there was just so many because these these episodes are three episodes long and this guy just is like this emotionally stunted little baby man that's running around and he acts like crichton from red dwarf but without any [ __ ] humor to him and a personality he just runs around being like you know the program i just wanted them to shoot him and transport the [ __ ] out of there oh yeah but they can't run the risk of killing him in a way that would make him scream i mean shooting him is really really quick and easy yes i mean you see their phases now they make you just disappear into atoms real quick so they could do that you do just burst shoot him in the mouth then he won't scream right in the [ __ ] throat he's gone dead i just wanted to bring that up because my good friend from high school who watches this show he texted me being like oh it's so annoying that they just don't kill sukhal a guy who loves star trek discovery because they just drag this [ __ ] out to the point in which your brain does go there right did your brain go there when viewing it the first time did your brain go to have they just killed him and moved on this story would end no not really i wish that star trek discovery as a show would just go die but i don't really think about them specifically shooting zookal because you know then the show would be still going we ready for the huda yes hugh was here end this misery please can we give a round of applause for wilson cruz


good on you wilson good on you wilson you rock that earring wilson had the hardest job of any actor in star trek discovery in this one to sit down and sternly say without just bursting into laughter why sukhol could cause the burn i was uh you know he deserves all the [ __ ] acting awards for being able to stifle the laughter from that moment he had some of the dumbest lines of dialogue ever put to the [ __ ] script in this show to explain one of the dumbest reveals that they've ever had and wilson cruz as a professional delivered it with absolute sincerity adding to my humor to it it is so funny to me when these actors have to stand there very sternly and very seriously say stupid [ __ ] and hearing wilson cruz just use his entire acting career to to give that exposition as to why this could happen it was magical i almost shed a tear at watching him spout out that nonsense with a straight face i i would want to watch the bloopers because i would imagine like that's why there's ones where it took 141 takes and that was the best take you know like because when he read the script when he went and read the script he must have been like oh boy what did i do wrong for them to make me deliver these lines because he had to explain how this medically is possible but ryan remember remember what wilson cruz said about season two's dialogue uh he has no merits you're right so hugh culver has um a new characteristic in this episode he found a purpose that he didn't know he was looking for his season two journey came back into play in this episode they've made jokes about it but now it's back he stayed because he knows what it's like to be lonely yeah and to face disconnected from the world those themes themes again and to face death straight on um i found it very odd um because season three has defined his character so much that when he stayed on the planet and did this little diatribe about how he wants to stay there because of these themes he learned from season two yeah even though he's evolved as a character away from that hmm i just shook my head being like uh oh oh they're doing it again they're sacrificing character so that things can be the way they are they're doing this so that there can be drama for paul because paul doesn't want him to be on the planet so hugh's still on the planet and then for the later episodes of michael refusing um paul to go back and save you so that we can have tension for next season the only reason that hugh colbert is on this planet is to set up interpersonal conflicts for later not because of it tying into anything that his character has actually grown into this season they're willing to for this one regress his character to justify the means i think the future if i had to bet on it is going to hold more drama what would you give a yum so quick to the trigger there you are far too fast on the trigger i would give it a yum as well it was too long this episode's like almost an hour long and i [ __ ] felt every single minute dragging by it was remember we paused it and it was like 15 minutes are left and there was just such a big sigh of like defeat in that this episode is paced terribly and it's all in service of revealing the cause of the burn which you kind of knew as soon as you saw sukhoi you're like oh it's not even the cause yet oh no we already figured that out before this episode started yeah which is the mother died and he he was upset about it it's them confirming that the nebula is the source of the burn which we also figured out a number of episodes ago but well let's not make that same mistake with this episode then ryan let's not make it over long and complicated i do want to touch upon this i've noticed this each season yes three to four episodes before the end they revealed the thing and then they walk about the place and then reveal it again at the end like it's a big surprise first season a little bit more subtle which is captain lorca was a mirror verse captain because if you watch that season you see him deliberately [ __ ] with the coordinates to get them there and that's a three or four episodes before the end of the season second season three or four episodes before the end they tell you that michael is the red angel and that she's the one who set the signals and then they walk around being like no it's actually her mum but why would it be and then at the end they're like michael you're the angel yeah we knew you told us four episodes ago and you've just been dawdling around the place here they tell us that sukhol is the reason for the burn we show how he is caused um we show how he does it and we the audience already know it's because his mother died you just know and they still wander about the place and then in the final episode reveal is because his mother died why do they keep doing that why is this consistently a thing that no matter the showrunner they reveal their hand several episodes before and then pretend that they didn't i i don't know stupid every time and if anything it's more stupid each time they do it yeah yeah yeah it is um and it's less subtle each time that they do it well everything about the show is getting worse at least with a red angel it was a genuine surprise that her mother was a red angel but then that was like a double twist of like you thought it was michael it was actually her mother actually it was still michael [ __ ] you this one there is no there is no um there's nothing to it there's nothing to it uh so rachel what will we be talking about and discussing for the next episode what is up next on star trek discovery there is a tide after capturing the uss discovery osira seeks a meeting with admiral vance while burnham and the crew must overcome unimaginable odds as they attempt to regain command of their ship oh you mean just do die hard okay i remember that episode so we'll be discussing that one next time 4.7 higher rated than sukhar yeah i mean we watched the sanctuary so i understand why that's the lowest rated episode but like i'm not surprised i am a bit surprised that this one ranks as a six on imdb just because most people review bomb the [ __ ] out of um terrible reveal episodes and this is like a terrible reveal episode like the reveal is a guy cried too hard yeah um not buying that one sweetheart so we'll be back next episode discussing there is a tide dot dot dot uh until then you can find us on the social medias of facebook instagram twitter reddit with under yum yum pod or yum yum podcast we're always posting things on there we are always giving out memes and furthering discussion so make sure you want even further discussion from us you can head over to our patreon which is yum yum podcast as well and if you want a bit of more maybe private style interaction you can send us an email at yummyumpod.gmail.com yes give us those emails follow us on the socials rate and review us on whatever podcatcher allows it and yes share the love on our patreon we have the extra content on there if you want to support the show we have episodes in which we give our thoughts and other things discuss the films and yes talk about other episodes of star trek the best and worst rated episodes all of the info for all that good stuff is in the description for this so make sure to click on those and do all the stuff that we tell you to do because the ends justify the means here people we want you to give us a five star review and interact with us on social media and pay us on patreon for extra content okay jeez oh rachel we didn't mention it but grudge was in this episode yeah crunch had her dna fixed too you know what grudge is


a queen you got it thank you