Yum Yum Podcast

Yum Yum Trek: Terra Firma, Part 1 - feat. Starfleet Underground

Episode Summary

Nathan and Patrick from Starfleet Underground must face their biggest challenge yet! Convincing the hosts of Yum Yum Pod that Terra Firma, Part 1 is a good episode. SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast FOLLOW STARFLEET UNDERGROUND: Twitter: @StarfleetUnderG Facebook: @starfleetunderground Instagram: @starfleetunderground

Episode Notes

Welcome aboard the Starship Yum Yum in which we your intrepid hosts Ryan and Rachel Sliwinski along try to break down episodes of Star Trek: Discovery without having a breakdown ourselves. This week on Yum Yum Trek we are joined by Nathan and Patrick from Starfleet Underground to discuss “Terra Firma, Part 1“ 
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Episode Transcription

hello rachel hi ryan how are you good how are you i'm feeling i'm feeling imperial oh are you yeah i'm feeling like i'm wanting to dominate brown yeah that's it actually donna crown and dominate nothing says those things like yum yum yeah yum yum's kind of like the phrase that you you know it's a phrase that you can use to describe anything such as that feeling imperial and wanting to wear a crown how are you feeling um i'm feeling similar like you know i'm i just want to hang out with my friend carl yeah read the newspaper my favorite cast member of csi yeah carl so rachel we are the yum yum podcast because of the iconic line of dialogue from star trek discovery which is a show we are discussing ah nandi when will she return to our crew when will she grace our screens again that is the biggest crime of season three not the burn being a guy who screamed real loud but non-leaving uh absolutely so we're re-watching star trek discovery rachel that is the format we're giving i am familiar with that but i'm making sure everyone's familiar with it everyone including some guests that we've gone on for this one rachel that's right we stretched out our hand and and we got some some fellow star trek podcast people who are brave enough to talk about terra firma part one we got some friends that we actually did a podcast with on their show recent a little while back uh starfleet underground hello fellas hello hey how you doing and i have to say i had no idea you guys wind up perfecting the trans warp transporter i mean one and since i'm in my cabin and the next she got us here that was a pretty wild ride so thank you no problem so you could have warned me i was in my i was in my knickers oh well well that's how we wanted you though we wanted the full experience so um please introduce yourselves and tell us a bit about your show well i'm patrick i'm number one i'm also the computer guy and i'm also the foreign species liaison and my name is uh captain nathan adams aboard our wonderful vessel here a starfleet underground i tried to lead the crew down the correct pathway but we got in constant trouble with hr so there was a lot of stuff going on we finally made a deal that they don't listen to us and our podcast is not for children so but i understand you guys are so we'll make sure that we'll keep all that naughty bits out previously on the yum yum podcast and all of its sea and the seeds spreading out everywhere like my [ __ ]


and so you guys are star trek podcast what kind of stuff do you cover do you do you focus on a specific series are you like us and you re-watch stuff like what do you guys talk about generally in the star trek world normally we first got started when um when discovery first came on that was our thing for for our podcast that was the birth of our podcast was for star trek discovery and since then we've kind of chased every new series that's been out so we've we've reviewed the discovery we reviewed picard we reviewed starfleet underground and as much as we loved the show we yeah go ahead start i mean no i meant starfleet


my favorite episodes are when they review their own episodes and go now that was a great point that patrick brought up and patrick's the one that said that comment so i'm really glad that he brought up that he brought up a great point back in the episodes he does do that because he starts off with what happened was yeah and i think at the moment you guys because there are currently no new star treks on at the moment we're in the interim uh where we will get a plethora of them but who knows when because the world is a crazy nonsense time um you guys seem to be covering uh star trek enterprise the i guess before discovery what was the latest star trek series much of the chagrin of our science officer she she hates the she hates the song so we thought this would be the best series to torture every episode is the beginning of that song but she's beginning to to find out what a lot of people did when they first started to watch enterprise that as the season progresses the show actually gets better yeah it it finds its identity and then it um gives archer a terrible haircut and remixes the song so it goes in different directions so yeah you guys i really enjoy your stuff like when we talk about star trek discovery we like to look at it in a re-watch capacity but i like listening to other people who are experiencing it for the first time and going through it and kind of anticipating the next episodes and what the future will hold in the series and all of that i personally don't like doing that myself because i feel like i've been burned too many times not just with star trek but in general of like anticipating things to go well by the end of the season or series so it will make sense later it will make sense later trust the mystery so i i i personally like when i like to talk about these things in like a reviewing format i like to try to revisit them and see how do they hold up on the on the second viewing of everything because it's an interesting little world to behold especially with a show like star trek discovery which we will be talking about in which the whole series season depends on like a big mystery reveal at the end of it and usually when you reveal a big mystery it's like well did the whole thing hold up when you re-watch it or is it one of those things where it's great when you're watching and you don't know where everything's gonna go and then you get to the end and you're like yeah yeah that was fun and you move on to the next thing and it seems like people are very divided on whether star trek discovery is that type of show or not um i think it kind of depends on the season honestly i tend to be lucky because i always i always forget what i watch so when i rewatch it it's like i'm watching it again for the first time so yeah i'm i'm cursed with memory i'm like oh i remember that in the first season emperor giorgio was um heralded for keeping prisoners alive and torturing them for months on end and that it was a sign of absolute terror that she did that and not killed them but that's me remembering things see like i i wish i could be like that a little bit with some of these shows where i'm like oh i wish i could go in blind again but i i i just can't help but remember details because i i i'm just an analytical type of person when i watch these things even for the first time i'm just like watching them with very very specific mindset like with most tv shows especially with the mystery show like this we're like okay all the details are they all gonna add up where's it all gonna go all of that but uh we have you guys on for terra firma part one so how about uh one of you guys tell us patrick perhaps if you could tell us what the plot of terra firma part one is according to imdb well let's see terra firma part one uh originally aired december 20 or december 10th 2020 and it is the u.s discovery crew journey to a mysterious planet in hopes of finding a cure for jojo's deteriorating condition stemettes and endura make a stunning breakthrough with the newly acquired burn data oh wait you forgot to reinitiate no i didn't you pause the algorithm when you put in a new storage array you need to restart it again see right here we're re-watching this what did you think of this episode the first time around and how is it feeling on this re review on this revisit sorry the first watch it enraged me and on the second watch i thought it was okay so it got better for you yep you didn't like it yeah what didn't you like about it what made you enraged the main thing is that they are trying they are still doing this i still recognize this on the rewatch to um make it okay that jojo is a dictator and just be like you know what she helped everybody out she's not that bad of a person you're not a jojo fan we should be sad that she's leaving and we should be sad that this murderer is dying in a horrific way when she has probably killed more people than any other star trek character no no that then she has atoms that are being teared apart yeah in this universe yeah i don't i don't know that anyone on discovery is is really sad that she's leaving i mean they're they're they're i think maybe michael but yeah you know like saroo is just like whatever [ __ ] get off the ship tilly gave her a big hug and was like we're friends like we've never interacted but we're friends you have helped me and saroo saru's just like you know i've never i've learned from you i've never had to really argue from you but somehow i've learned more from you than prime universe georgio that saved me from my dead end world and introduced me to starfleet right right but you you taught me more rachel so you did not like this episode the first time around because you and you still kind of have some reservations because you aren't a you aren't on board for the redemption arc of space hitler no is that correct that's that's understandable um when i first viewed this episode because here's the thing we did not watch this to week we batched them so we watched them back to back the two parts so it's kind of hard for me to separate how i felt about them the first time around as like individual episodes but i my big takeaway was the same thing i'm not really buying this i didn't really buy this redemption arc kind of oh let's feel sorry for jojo um i'm like again i'm not really comfortable with the idea of her level of evil like where she's exterminated whole species because of racial prejudice to get a happy redemption arc but my other big problem was i looked at this and i i remember thinking this is a two-parter i felt like this did not need to be and i think there was also that thing we always knew that jojo was going to leave in some fashion because she has her own show that's seemingly not getting made right now but maybe


yeah that was another thing too of like when i watched this i was like oh so this is the story in which jojo leaves the show because she has to host she has to be the lead of her own show with ash tyler perhaps and i and i and and i thought i was kind of just infuriated because i thought this halted i thought that the pacing of the season halted a bit here where you've been building up and i also got a bit mad because i thought out of all the stories that deserved more than one part the unification idea should have been more than one part to me not george joe's fun times in the mirror verse so that's how i felt the first time this time around watching it i didn't mind it i i didn't mind this part at least i didn't love it there were things i had issues with i still hold dear to the fact that this did not need to be two parts yeah um if i i enjoyed this episode primarily like patrick in a way in which if i forgot that giorgio's character was set up the way she was exactly the way then i enjoyed this enough if i thought of her as a garrick type instead of a gold to cut type then i enjoyed this episode far more but that's not the merit of the episode that's just me being like if i forget that georgio isn't space hitler then i enjoy this episode if i just accept it and move on it doesn't enrage me what was my experience i enjoyed it too because i don't like georgio as a comedy character i i like i don't find her jokes particularly that funny this episode had some but it felt like we've had a plethora of episodes with her so it felt like the least amount of quips and gags from her in quite some time so i kind of got to enjoy her character a little bit more as an actual character than the one who does the gag at the end of the scene character we don't call them gags in in america we don't call them gags we call that shade prepare to meet an army down there one can hope those who i will take with me in battle will be my servants in the afterlife so what was your feelings on this episode the first time around nathan well i'm uh i when i watch a show for the second time i am a background looker um i try to pick up things that i might not have picked up before of breadcrumbs and stuff yeah and there's so much going on on the first time i watched i didn't pick up a lot of the little things like with the newspaper um the title on the newspaper and i was cons right and i was consumed on who did who the hell that guy was you know it was like who is he what could he be why is he there is he a cue is he at this is he is that so watching it the second time you get a chance to for me i get a chance to pick up more the nuances of the characters and the body language i'm really big on body language and to see like um the little nods when they were giving the the the show like how great giorgio is she urinates gold and let's show everybody and how you know you could see when he was looking at at burnham and how she gave just the slightest head nod to to what's his face to let him know yeah it's on killer yeah i get that yeah there's there's little little details like that especially when we get to the mirror universe section of this and which it really does feel like they had a lot of fun and a lot of uh like you know zany stuff going on what about you patrick what did you think of this the first time around and how does it hold up for you on on the rewatch even though you say everything's kind of new to you um how was it for you well i just remember the first time um you know trying to figure out like we know what the hell is going on with with her with georgio and why you know she's her body is coming apart but then when they get down to dennis five and all of a sudden carl appears like i almost crapped my pants i was like oh my god i'm like you know i'm thinking i'm thinking back to old star trek and what this could possibly be you know could this be original series could this be next-gen you know so it was very exciting um but then like nathan again when you watch it the second time you pick up little things that you didn't necessarily see for the first time like the name of the newspaper the star dispatch and um you know then i i kind of like to look at other things and find out who characters are like um what's your name dr issa of the kiev yeah she was she was played by serana the actress who played sorana saroo's sister yeah so you know i like to go back and like find those little kind of bits of information to to flesh things out for me yeah yeah i like to do that too and see but i also get frustrated and yeah well how about i ask this because you guys may be able to clarify this it's been a little while so my memory is a little bit foggy and i imagine yours may be too but could you clarify for for me when she goes through this door into the into the mirror universe how do you interpret this is this her literally traveling back in time to the mirror universe or is this kind of like a christmas carol type of deal what did you take away from this well um there was actually um uh michelle yo was just on the pod directive which is the official stark star trek podcast and she was saying that the door going back to the mirror universe is basically a judge and whether she's worthy of having a second chance so for me it was it sent her back to you know her own time in her own universe so it was a time travel it was also a you know a dimension jump yeah but does that mean for you does that mean the events that she's done in that universe have altered the timeline or is it is that's going to be really interesting to see because whenever you start messing with time it really goes kind of nuts because if she messed with it too much if you want to be a real time purist is that all of a sudden michael would have disappeared yeah and she wouldn't be in the prime universe because she's dead no no exactly and none of the events from the end of season one make any sense then because prime lorca still i mean sorry miry lorca's still out there in our universe he'll come back to the mirror universe and just rule it and win that's what if if that's what this is because i was just curious of what you guys thought of it because for me i personally look at it as a christmas carol type of deal i don't think if because for me if it is she's gone back to her own timeline in the mirror universe and she's fiddled around with it then there are some issues within this that uh for me don't make that don't line up with what the continuity of season one put there and that is you know several factors if we're going to go with this is a time travel thing there are several factors for continuity things obviously there's been many different change of hands of show runners and sometimes these details get forgotten but there are little things that if this is she's traveled back to her past there are things that before she's traveled back that have been set up that don't quite line up with what season one presented so that's why i like to go with a christmas carol type of deal which is like a fantastical version well i think carl would have known you know being who carl is he would have known you know what her going back there meant for the timeline and because it's in the mirror universe it wouldn't necessarily affect everything in the in this prime universe but it does affect it because we have crossed over with it at at some point that's what i'm but even within the mirror there's some continuity things that i question if it is a direct she's traveled back in time that's why for me and they and that's the thing they leave it vague enough because we know what carl is in the original series he's just a time travel thing but they've messed around with the guardian of forever's abilities in the animated series and i'm sure in books and whatever so it's not consistent with him as a as a as a as a device rachel what do you think so from me it was a bit of both so it was definitely try and travel and definitely a dimension jump but i kind of explained it away for myself by saying well it's just branching universe kind of thing where she's made a different decision so she's created a new path and a new parallel universe to the mirror universe like avengers and game style yeah okay yeah yeah i can buy that a little bit more because see because that's the way that i think of parallel universes yeah i see yeah i'd rather it be something like that than if it is just a direct time travel she's fiddled around because my brain like like you guys i like to notice details too and on re-watches i noticed details from the first season i'm like well in the third season that contradicts what it said in the first season and then it makes me a bit cranky but since by design i like i've met several people who see this whole her going back in a very in many differing ways and i think this is one of the few times in which i praised star trek discovery for being a little bit vague on the how the mechanics of this work because if it if it just did state she traveled back in time and did all of this [ __ ] it would just drastically change not just the mirror timeline but our own timeline within the show and it's just like all these time travel stuff all these parallel dimension stuff it's a it's a lot of information to take down in a season that really doesn't have any interest in any of that the second season had far more of an interest in time travel the first season had far more of an interest in a mirror universe thing this season isn't focusing on all of those so if it does plonk it in there in these double patters it kind of feels like well this is a lot of information to take in for just two episodes obviously you we all know that the portal is to weigh you weigh you and really is to see if you deserve a second chance and i think in life that's what we all hope that if we do something wrong do something bad we hope there is redemption and we will be given a second chance so let's start off with a a question i've got for you guys which is adira and paul have a story kind of in here what are you plot synopsis said plot synopsis said so in which i can't even remember what did they what did they do they just chatted briefly right they were like adira was doing an algorithm to clean up the noise from the transmission from the from the nebula right and stamets saw that she hadn't reinitialized it and then he was like okay what do you what's going on with you why are you upset she's like you know it's okay if you're gonna be you know mad at um gray for not being here so there's it's it's a father it's a father child dynamic that's happening yeah at least for me anyway and do you find that the season did a satisfying enough job developing that dynamic throughout it i think so i mean being that it wasn't a major you know point in this in the in the story line i think they did um they did give us enough i think the way they brought in gary and um the way they brought brought day in was was really um interesting because they couldn't figure out why they had such extensive knowledge and why they were such a genius but if you look at it as having a trill symbiote it's like they have the combined knowledge of everybody but yet didn't have the much emotional maturity to handle all of those things and so i think man with a trill right and staminas comes along it was a good little way to have stamis recover his humanity with all the stuff that he's going through and not to be so snooty yeah adira is just one of those characters that we've talked about several times on the show we just have a hard time understanding what about them has been necessary to add to the season who are they what are they about and what do they offer to this already large cast of characters that we barely get to spend enough time with there are whole stretches in which adira just doesn't even show up and then there are whole stretches now where gray isn't even in the show and i just think to myself like i've watched the season i'm re-watching it and i'm re-watching it with a keen eye of trying to pick up who adira's character is and outside of the base knowledge of adira is a trill um you know well carrying it has a symbiote sorry and has a dead ghost lover um and is a tween genius as they keep saying i don't really know much about their character and i don't know much about their character to understand why paul stamets a very prickly person is so enamored by them and and this whole father child dynamic that's been building throughout the season the first time i watched it when it arrived at the very end of season it's like hugh and paul are like we adopt you you're our child it felt so weird to me because i i was like okay is this a thing that they've been building towards re-watching it i've been noticing that they have been building towards it but i just settle but i just i just i i still struggle to know who adira is and why paul wants to hang out with adira now let's say you are out somewhere and you are teaching a class and you come across somebody kind of reminds you of you and you see the the growth that they're going through you're going to develop a natural affinity towards them because you have a natural affection to how you were so when they see somebody who's socially awkward that didn't know what to do or or how to do it and they're basically smart and made fun of they developed that relationship a lot easier than it would have been with somebody who say let's say who's like a butch the rock type of person it's like can you smell what the rock is fixing you know they wouldn't quite get it that way yeah the rock who starred in star trek voyager let's never forget you're no bigger than a tarkanian field mouse pink's insulting me by putting you in the pit to face me i must warn you i possess superior strength i'm trembling with stamets being an openly gay character um and then adira being you know trans being being they um he sees the struggle right that him as a gay person has gone through um and you know this the struggle that trans people go through and so he feels that kinship i get that from a like look i get that from a real world context of a modern day perspective context but watching star trek discovery and remembering it's a star trek show never throughout the journey of star trek and star trek discovery did i ever get the inkling that paul stamets's uh homosexuality was ever a huge struggle from because there's a star trek world right where none of that matters it's like everything's i agree i agree with you but it's the weirdness part of it he may not have been ostracized for it but the fact that he was typically a boy genius um that part of it i think is what he identifies with it's more that he's an [ __ ] and adira can be a bit of an [ __ ] when that's like what they want well that's how come him and reno get along so well not so much plus we don't get to see paul growing up we see him as an adult yeah and so as an adult you know he's come to terms with and dealt with most likely dealt with um you know the issues that he faced growing up as a gay kid and as a nerdy gay kid but yeah so you know you're he's a different person now and but he can still relate to the struggle that a deer is going through with trying to find out who they are because it's it's a very difficult process when you're in when you're um a gay person or a trans person in a heterosexual world trying to figure out how you fit into that and be okay with it because you know at least in the 20 21st centuries you're told that you know you're you're wrong you're going to hell it's a sin blah blah blah you know you can get be killed for who you are so there's that whole struggle and hopefully by the time we meet stamets he's resolved all those issues for himself my biggest complaint is i wish adira and paul was on screen more often there have been many times in the past few episodes in which it's like they walk in and they go hey we we we figured this whole thing out off screen and i'm like i would have liked to have seen that on screen to see a story and to see you so you want you want to see more of the character development with the both of them together rather than it being assumed that it happened behind the scene type of thing yeah 100 okay yeah that i i can get that i that i understand you're tired you know and slept you were angry with gray um i'm not angry it's okay to miss him i don't miss him this double partner terra firma part 1 and 2 serves as the exit for giorgio from this show to hopefully star in her own show i want to ask outside of if you like her character or not did giorgio need to be in this season of discovery well she wasn't in there that often or that much towards that part um they started to concentrate if i remember correctly on on others until she started doing the the freaky um we found her new software special effects let's make her face weird um so yeah i guess they wanted to set her up kind of like to for her new show coming up because whenever they concentrate on a primary character like that it's it's because they're getting ready to give him a send-off then why not just leave her behind and do a similar goodbye as they did with spark or none well i think george georgio has a bigger presence though yeah she has a bigger presence she's a she's um a bigger character than narn was um so it's but we care more about spock than we care about georgio looks like he's someone we know yeah that's another they wouldn't be they wouldn't be able to do like look we have this evil hitler woman and we gave her a puppy and now she's good no i get no it's true but that's why wouldn't that be what section 31 the show would do as a show because that's the thing too of i don't know what they're going to do with a character in that show if she's already done her little redemption arc in this show well maybe they needed a buy-in i don't know the miner the writers but maybe they need some people who would be completely turned off by giorgio so i'm not going to watch it because she's a she's a bee i'm not going to even pay attention to her but it's like oh wait maybe she isn't all that bad so yeah let me watch it when you get to other people's like i love her being a bee they better not change her so much now you get both people buying in to want to see the show yeah does that make sense no it does i just struggle with see i'm very much focusing when i'm looking at this over time management and character focus because we introduce adira we have adira we give adira one big episode and then they're not in the show for three episodes in a row and in those episodes we're going to focus on georgio georgio's here helping michael save book or jojo's here talking smack to hugh and i'm thinking to myself okay i know georgio has been here since the very beginning but all of this is going to serve to basically what is 10 episodes setting up her just leaving this show to star in her own show rather than giving time to characters like book like adira like admiral vance who are new characters or even osira god i mean i don't like osara but like i still feel like if you gave her some time i could grow to understand what she's about but like we're focusing on like and let's say goodbye so that this woman can have her own tv show which is a very meta reason within within this narrative which most people who watch this show aren't knowing all the production stuff that's going on behind the scenes like we do who analyze it and talk about it like my father who watches this show who's 60 year old man he doesn't know that she's getting her own show he's just in there going okay but why was she here the whole season if they just got rid of her well like my like my dad used to tell me he's like don't think about it just enjoy the show because my dad was very analytical uh when he when he watched sci-fi um and because he he would do the same thing he something would take him out of the fantasy of the show and he'd be like ah you know but he he would always tell me he's like just don't think about it just enjoy it i was similar i had a friend one time and patrick knows this story um i have a very helical mind and so i was on liberty we went to go see uh independence day and i started yelling and screaming at the screen they had told me to turn my brain off because i was getting visibly upset and annoyed because you have an air force one takes off full throttle white house gets destroyed and the plane barely escapes because the flames are looking behind the plane yeah then you have a woman who's in a car with her kid and a dog sees the fireball coming in a rearview mirror has enough time to get out of the car dodge through stalled cars and kick open the door and then call for the dog before the fireball comes it's like really i think the difference yeah i see i find it hard though because star trek discovery and you guys know this having been a star trek discovery podcast and being on the internet it demands that you think about this like it's like think about how clever we are think about how smart this show is aren't you curious about the mystery box aren't you curious about how we're going to pull off all these different disparate elements into the big payoff at the end so how can i turn my brain off to a show that's demanding that i have you gotta you gotta you got a good point on that it's like what makes the the 3d handheld 3d printer work you know so yeah i i i get that it's asking a lot because they know how we can get um and you know how we if we watch a show and we watch it over and over again we can analyze the daylights out of it yeah and so i i get that so yeah they're asking us to be smart but also not pay attention um no you have to respect canon you have to you have to understand the timelines and what the different timelines were and what the different universes were and how they all work together and you have to keep very meticulous track of who when where and why and we have people in the room whose soul in the writers room whose soul job is to say no can't do that to talk about some good stuff in this episode because like i said i did enjoy this a lot more the second time round serum still great love that guy awesome i still love him so saroo has some teachable moments in here so um when admiral vance overrides his decision to you know for for them to take georgio to dennis five he's like hmm okay so what happened here and you know and and the um vance explains to him he's like you know i i know this isn't what you would have decided but and then explains to him you know why he did it which gives saru a lot to think about you know because he's still new at being a captain so you know he doesn't know all the ins and outs and um how to play the role as as it were as it were so you know when he tells him you know if you had left her to die the crew would have seen you differently yeah and you would have seen yourself differently so it's a very teachable moment i really liked that yeah i did too and it's a really important lesson for leaders to learn in general that you are kind of only as strong as your weakest person and if you are not uplifting from the bottom and uplifting everybody you don't get as much success and as much trust from those people who are there to support you and to help the whole crew work together to get to where they need to go i think many people said over the season ceru's one of the most liked characters because he's the most star trek type character he's the spock he's the data he's the analytical man who doesn't fully get the human condition but he's slowly learning it that is all true but what i love about saroo is he is the most dynamic character to me he's the one that has arcs that makes sense to me he learns he grows he changes um in ways that make far more sense to me than um some of the other characters and to me when i watch him in season one and i watch him in season three he's a different character but i can track why he's changed while michael in this season she's had this magical year away with book off screen um and she's just told us several times i'm different now but she acts the same as she did before but now she's like a little less like um grumpy like she's a little bit more grumpy um but hopefully in the next season we'll we'll get to see some of the the missing year you know that michael had and that will ex and that will fill in the gaps and explain what happened to her during that time hopefully your fingers crossed that we'll get that but does that help this season that relied on that missing year because that's my big complaint is i couldn't relate to michael for 13 whole weeks of television because this magical year that happened happened off screen and we didn't get to hear much about it does it will it will it matter in a year or two's time if they did that to this season i'm i'm pondering what you're all saying on that um i do think that on the next season they probably will uh revisit some of the time that she spent alone with with book because i do want to see the stuff that supposedly had made her change other than her hairstyle and the fact that she found someone to do braids in the future that she shoots faster now yeah but there's there's a lot um when she came back is being able to fit in a structured environment that part i kind of liked to see her her struggle yeah right to struggle to refit back into a an environment of of structure when she was used to being like by herself running around but yeah i'd like to see that as well because i do think some of it may be the strength of the character like doug jones is this a phenomenal actor so they'll give him something and he'll make it work and he'll make you believe it where you'll sit and cry for no damn reason because he's that good and putting and bringing a character to life where you have some people they have trouble moving out of the box that's set for them yeah but my thing is why i think ceru's a dynamic character is we see on screen the things that he learns from and changes and adapts from while michael there are so many that happens off screen and you just have to assume that maybe down the line they'll give us something but we watch him go through we watch him meet up with jojo in the short track we watched him fail as a captain when he had to take over for lorca when he was when he got kidnapped we watched saroo learn and adapt and change and that's why i think he's the best character in the show i think we spend so much when we spend time on suru it's not spending time making a joke or having a fun little time like we do with tilly or paul or or even michael but every time we spend with suru it feels like we're building upon something here it feels like we're going towards an arc it feels like we're building up his character it feels like we are building a momentum instead of having oh here's a scene where giorgio mentions that hugh is uh pansexual in the mirror verse isn't that a fun little trivia fact every scene with um suru for the most part i feel like i'm watching a character go through something i'm watching them and that's why i agree i like that admiral advance scene as well in which vance is teaching in this lesson and you see saroo internalizing and thinking i don't fully agree with this but i should take this under consideration then how did you feel with with um cobra and and stamis's relationship because they did show him dealing with the fact that people forgot him in the mushroom world you know we've had a few problems with you as a hue as a character in the past because the whole first season gave him no character and then the second season relied on you caring so much about his character because in the first season he just smiled and nodded a lot and then he got his neck snapped and i'll never forget that i'll never forget the image of star trek discovery saying hey he's our first gay couple and then we've just brutally murdered one for fun right um i'll never forgive it um and then the second season was like don't you care so much about hugh as a character no no i cared about the fact that you murdered him for no reason other than drama but i don't know who he is this third season and we'll get into it later on has given hugh much much better of a defined character that's yeah i agree he's him and saroo are probably the most compelling characters of this third season to me yeah but i i wanted to just touch upon with that advanced scene though right he teaches him this lesson he he internalizes he accepts it and then later on in the show in this episode suru says hold on i'm not going to tell vance i'm not going to give vance this information yet until we've got a lot more a lot more to go on and we learn as the show goes on that's a big mistake and he shouldn't have done that um how do you guys feel about that aspect of it i think he was i think he was saying he was he was trying to he was still trying to process that first lesson from from vance and and saying okay do i go with my instinct and do we tell him right away or should i stop and consider this so i think he's i think he's being thoughtful about it and you know it turned out maybe that it's wrong i'd the wrong direction to go but he's trying to give it the thought process that the lesson was teaching him he was overworking the equation is like that old joke like what do you sit on eat with and sleep in and the answer is like you know a chair or fork in your bed where yeah you get somebody and i think that's what he was doing he was over analyzing what he should do yeah i sameem see i sit here and i watched it and i just went yeah he's right i just looked and went yeah yeah he doesn't need to inform the admiral straight away he has his very little to go on to to think of it and see me i think of my star trek brain i think back to all of the story lines in which we've had so many different captains who didn't have to immediately phone starfleet hq to let them know all the details of everything going on until they actually had information yeah yeah and that's why i get frustrated with saroon this season because i love him as the captain i've said from the beginning i think he should have been captain from the beginning i'm not a fan of the spinning captain's chair don't like it um because he's a unique captain he's one of the few were that we've seen in which he's learning on the job he doesn't have the experience but he's capable and moments like this along with moments like michael being told you were right to run off and save your boyfriend even though it [ __ ] over the rest of the crew there's moments like this that are planted throughout the season in which it just feels like to me the show the writers are setting suru up to fail so that michael can get the chair at the end of the season if michael played that same move the writers would have made it that that was the right call yeah it was a logical call but when suru does it it's like this air of oh that was the wrong call then i'm sitting here as an audience member who's watched star trek thinking what's wrong with that cole and why why is the admiral gonna scold him in the second part for doing that let us wait until we have something more substantive to report here's what i say i have a kelpian research vessel that crashed before the burn and a captain who hasn't seen another kelpian face since he got here i won't blame you if you're a little distracted we don't like georgio that much no this is the double party saying hey don't you love this character don't you aren't you gonna miss her yes it is what do you like about emperor giorgio don't give us the what you hate what do you like about this character i like the fact that she is is capable and she has a can-do attitude when it comes to something it's just something inspiring about anybody who has an intense self of self worth and the self ability to do things without such determination bingo that's what i admire if she was like somebody that was in command i probably would follow majority of orders except for the ones that were morally questionable she's someone that you can look up and go yeah you know you're in trouble now because you made our co pissed off yeah we haven't seen that with walker as well yeah we had a a gunny sergeant um in the service that looked like he came out of a recruiting poster i mean complete with with the scar on his face and the kung fu grip he was the type of person that if somebody said he went into the cave with the bear we would have sat around and said oh damn we got to go in and help that bear and giorgio would be that person i think i think for me um one she's a strong woman and you know it's always good to see a strong female character i love that you know on a show that doesn't rely on some man to come and save her um you know which is a stereotype obviously i mean saru comes in in the second part but okay well you know do we hmm


i'm sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry patrick that the show betrayed that statement that you made


well you're jumping ahead to a show that we're not supposed to have seen yet so there you go get it i get it in this episode no man comes in yeah no we are meant to have seen it because it's the re-watch yeah that's fair but go on okay so um but she's just she's a strong female character she she takes no [ __ ] from anybody you know she she knows herself you know she well okay let me put it this way she knows who she was because in this you know in this episode we see that you know there have been changes throughout the season we see there have been changes so she knows who she was and yet she's not adverse to making changes whether she whether she knows it or not she has allowed humanity to seep into her um and i love her one-liners i mean because she's just she cuts you to the quick yeah immediately you know i'll never forget her sperm line what a great line that was where she's like i'm dressed like a giant spermazola yeah great well who doesn't want to be a giant sperm come on i mean no i mean you got me there i was a sperm at one point rachel you well that that's technically incorrect but we'll move on we'll take as we move on rachel come on georgio we've we've we've talked smack about it but let's talk some praise what do you what do you got do you got anything in that big bag of yours i don't know if i have anything different i do agree that it is good to see a strong woman and they make a point about how it is an issue that she lacks the emotional vulnerability and how she uses like the aggressive side of her nature to kind of over compensate for that and to cover up those things because she still sees them as weaknesses even though she's seen how it can be a strength but because of her upbringing and all of like the standards that she has for herself that she can't overcome those the conditioning that she has and i think that that's a really interesting thing to explore well you we know in the mirror universe that that you know showing weakness or emotion you know will get you killed yeah so so she she may be an emotional person you know she may feel things very deeply but because of who she is and where she and and the timeline that she's in she has to block all that she can't let that be seen otherwise you know someone's going to kill her just the fact that she went out and decided to adopt a child which even if she did go to garbage heap and picked a random child that is would still be viewed very much in the terran world as an act of charity is she yeah i guess and that is part of why mary universe michael says you didn't do me a favor by pulling me yeah my trash which was a favorite she said she said i was i was king of that trashy yeah you know so i found that to be a strange thing to say one man's castle is another man's trashy yeah i think mirror universe michael's a bit of a loser oh yeah yeah i think look i as i said at the beginning if i remove how this character was set up and personally i do not think they gave enough building blocks towards a redemption for a character of this level of evil um but for this episode what i will say is her strength to me what i enjoyed about it is and it's kind of the opposite of what was said but also ties in to what we've been saying is i enjoyed seeing her be a weak vulnerable character in this because to me that stoicism those quips the i want to fight and every phrase i say is either a sexual innuendo or just racist um because i'm an evil xenophobic dictator i like seeing her actually question her own morality i actually like seeing her be afraid and vulnerable and pathetic like i actually like seeing her like at the end when she has to spare michael and how everyone around her treats it like what a pathetic act that was and she's conflicted herself i like that aspect i don't think necessarily i don't think personally that the things have built up to this being earned but when i watched it knowing that she's also going to exit the show i kind of wish okay i can't i personally wish that there was more building blocks to this moment and i wish the character was set up differently but i like seeing giorgio not be the joke character who is also there to kick people because that's my thing of you have this bizarre character which is like oh in your crew of people who love ideals you have a character who's a nazi who kicks people and it's like such a weird thing to have in there and they've been so stoic the whole time it's nice to see in this episode she actually has remorse she actually has a tender moment with saroo the slave version of him i like seeing that and it reminded me of stuff i've seen in star trek before like for instance i think they should have set her up more as a garrick type character than the golds gold to cut type character that they set her up as because garrick for instance he was a bad guy he did nasty [ __ ] but he wasn't like a guy who occupied a whole planet and ran death camps so you could understand a redemption arc for him being possible in comparison to gold ducat who in ds9 they're like look he has a daughter and it's like doesn't that humanize him and the show says no it doesn't actually he's still a nazi a fascist and a rapist too and with giorgio they set her up to be kind of too evil for me but if i remove all that from my brain and just watch this episode i like seeing her drop this facade and it allowed michelle yo to actually give a more dynamic performance than she has for the run of the show because to me she hasn't been allowed outside of when she played the original jojo yeah she hasn't really been allowed to hit a lot of the bigger beats that every other cast member has she just gets to be the one who smirks and that's kind of genuinely enjoyed the scene with giorgio and michael in the training room well that's exactly what i was going to say about the training room scene is is we get to see georgio you know she's like fight me you know it's it's very much um there's this this controlled character that is giorgio and here we see this emotion coming from her because she knows she's in trouble you know and for her that is a very um dangerous unsure place yeah and she's not terrified of death no she's terra firmer


i still think that this doesn't need to be a double patter i personally felt like the first 15 minutes should have been our universe and then straight into the mirror verse and wrap this up because although i enjoyed a lot of the mirror verse stuff in this episode i did feel it dragged a little and i felt like there were a few different points when it could have ended yeah um like that that scene there that's where it could have ended and then no no this scene here and where it did end for me with like her um being like oh and throw her in the you know in the room where we're going to torture her some more and then it just kind of like she just walks off screen like sideways off the screen i found that like maybe it's just the shot or the music beat i found a little bit like oh this is where you're going to end the episode okay okay they need you to do that in order to have what they call is a cliffhanger in order to get people to watch next week they do but they they had a few scenes before that because that were great cliffhanger moments too there was a scene where she was talking to saroo and there was like she put a sword in and she's like i'm gonna do this my way blah blah and then storms off and i was like okay you're gonna end it there oh no you're gonna keep going okay like like i just felt like the pacing of it once we got in the mirror verse as much as it is fun i love seeing the reverse it's a fun time some of them around so that like the con confrontation with michael happened before the scene with saroo and then the scene with suru is the kappa the the end of the episode and like that like doubling down on i will change this my fate is not determined i am in control and that kind of mandate from heaven kind of [ __ ] that she has in her head i don't know what if this was intentional or not i don't know if you guys have any um things to say about this but what's interesting is georgio when we first met her was a very like you know she was dictator she she thought of things in a very militaristic point of view and one of the reasons that she hated lorca was that he was like this fanciful man who believed in fate and destiny and all this [ __ ] um to her she's like ah who cares about that and in this she she speaks a lot more like how lorca did in that first season where it's like it's my destiny it's my fate i believe that this can all be changed type of stuff i don't know if um if you guys have anything to say about that but i was just noticing that this time around and maybe because also i was looking like i was disappointed lorca wasn't in these two partners but in either of these parts but i was noticing like the way she was talking like oh this sounds like season one locker who was like yeah fate and destiny and all that kind of stuff it's very interesting i don't know if it was intentional but i felt that at least yeah um i think because they come from the same cloth so to speak in that being in that universe or that galaxy and that's why i think that speech was so similar um it's kind of hard to undo years of of basically post-traumatic stress disorder you know for her being that way this is the way she brought up this is the way she was this is how the thing is you know like in it to cross streams for a second and this is this is how she's had to respond every single other time time she's been in these exactly like to cross fandoms here this is the way


so that's how it is and but yet even with that um it did show that the time she spent with discovery it had an impact on her yeah it did i just you know my struggle is and we've watched you know we've all watched a great amount of star trek um one of the things that i always took away from star trek is people will make the joke oh the evil emperor grappler zorn with his big laser is the enemy of the episode this week to me one of the most recurring themes of antagonism in the world of star trek is um fascism it's always been like fascism is bad from the very beginning constantly hammering it in fascism is a bad bad thing we should not accept it we should not glorify it we should not think it's fun or sexy it's gross it's evil we can have people like gold to cut who's a well nuanced character and we find him interesting and you may agree with some of his points but at the end of the day the show still says he was a fascist and that is bad and i think for me i will never be able to relate to georgio because i have it ingrained in my brain from just watching star trek and from being a person of polish heritage fascism is bad but she is a fascist and the show always treats it as isn't that kind of cool because one of the things that disconnects me from liking this arc is there's never really any points up until now in which her actions were um challenged it was always like hey george oh your violent method was actually the correct one like in season three episode two far from home suru is trying to deal with the the the cowboy guy with starfleet diplomacy but what wins at the end of the day is her violence and um i i get that and i understand what you're saying and i'm going to jump into your point a little bit and coming from a a strong military background there's a thing we used to say all the time the bible says that the meek will inherit the earth but i am a firm believer is that the meek will need a champion to fight for them and there are times when i have to be the sword in the dark it's not something i want to do or have to do but it's necessary and i think what they're trying to do with her is trying to show that there are times when diplomacy wouldn't work and sometimes you need somebody who's going to go in and be that way and so being hit like you said his growth when he stands her down it's like either you're going to give me that or shoot me in the face


and again has lived this life of fear and oppression you know so for him standing standing up to somebody is a huge is a huge deal whereas georgio is the complete opposite you know i mean if if georgetown had been you know in ceru's life and vice versa they both both characters will be dead yeah and like i get her function of that but i do wish that the show would challenge her more often than they did this is the double partner that challenges that perspective but throughout the whole show she's racist she's constantly bragging about how she's exterminated whole races of people she's bragging about all of these fascist ideals she i i see that more as a reminder of who she is she's not she's saying it to kind of remind herself i'm this person she doesn't like the fact that she's changing so every time she feels changing and warm fuzzy's like i wiped the whole world how dare i feel fuzzy yeah and nice and loved that really makes sense with was it oh i can't remember which episode it was but when they have that kind of ongoing quit gag thing about i killed my mother no you didn't yeah yeah yeah yeah i think it's just hard for me because i can understand all of that but you set her up as worse than hitler and that's the thing i'll never get past that is she is set up as the emperor who has exterminated whole races and someone like gold to cut is considered to be a bad man and i'm like well if golden cut is on the rungs down from where georgio is i guess he's a good guy but no he's a bad man another thing i wish the show either introduced her level of evil to be less um disgusting to be honest because again she's a hitler type to begin with she should have either been a garrick type to me or if they are going to have that they should challenge and and and and not and actually condemn her more often than they did because many people look at jojo and they say oh she's funny she's sexy she does all the actions she's super cool she's a strong female character it's like does a strong female character have to also be the nazi though that's the thing so you're you're equating her to like maybe khan yeah but khan's a bad guy yeah but he also was charismatic and a lot of people love him he is a bad guy the movie never ever forgets that he is a guy who is a villain he is a bad man okay i i i got it you your your statement right there just help me solidify what your point is is your point is that they put her in the oh my god what's in the box evil and they turn around and get people oh even though she cut off the head of the pregnant wife she's okay for giorgio watching that i think the thing that's important is she's watching her history and the history that's told of all the lands that she's conquered and the people that she's killed and for georgio as she is now in season three having spent all of this time with our crew on discovery and particularly her relationship with burnham it all rings a bit hollow now it's not the celebration that it would have been back when she was still living in the mirror universe this thing that should be celebratory is actually a measure of this person that she was that she doesn't quite connect with anymore i think that's really cool to get to experience that i think it's time for we have our show in our show we have the huda in which we focus on hugh culber the amazing character of dr hugh culver and discuss what we noticed about him in this episode and rachel what did you notice about hugh in this he was here he stands up to david cronenberg i can't believe david cronenberg's in this [ __ ] show it's awesome i love him with the blade under glasses yes so cool just his normal glasses those are just his glasses


i mean i don't know about you rachel but although he didn't get as much to do in this destroyed him in this episode i thought he had a great yeah um banter and and and report really good presents with david cronenberg we actually complained recently in one of our episodes that giorgio and um hugh were in a scene together and i think it was more the direction but i didn't really feel like uh michelle yo and wilson cruz played off each other that well i felt it was really awkward and kind of clunky but david cronenberg someone who i still don't think as an actor i think of as a director him and wilson cruz really have a great back and forth and i kind of want to see more scenes of them two together they really did they really did i agree with you and it shows you um has some steel behind him now whereas before i never got that you never saw his strength and now you saw he's like i'm not backing down i'm just going to smile nicely and let you know i will beat the f out of you yeah so i like it like i i will do everything i can for my patient i will not accept defeat without trying all of the things that i can try you were getting an understanding that the first two seasons never gave me an understanding of and i wonder if you guys feel the same i understand in season three what type of doctor hugh colbert is in those first two seasons i could not tell you what his medical ethics were i couldn't tell you if he was like crusher if he was like the mh i couldn't tell you but this this season i feel like he's got a mixture of dr crusher yeah and a mixture of dr franklin from babylon 5. he's kind of got those two energies like his own person and his own doctor in this season more than he did in the other two he's become he's become clearly he's become clearly defined in mind you know when you when you die and come back i mean i think that's gonna have a very big impact on what your you know ethics are and and where your moral stance is like people didn't give up on me so i'm not gonna give up on others i've died so i know how bad it is


but yeah i enjoyed his back and forth with with cronenberg and i hope in the future we see them paired up more often in the show i think they they actually play off really well i think david cronenberg's surprisingly good actor in this i i enjoy seeing him um i hope he becomes more of a character than just a mystery box character who's like what's he all about who is he the starfleet president i mean federation president ooh like i don't care about that i just want to know who he is i want to get a character beat on him david croninberg's delivering it performance wise but i hope next season gives us details of characterization more if you come to me sooner i could have saved you a lot of trouble i wasn't aware you had any medical training yes well because i'm a man of wildly varying interests what did you guys think of getting to see in this part we'll get to see him a bit more in the second one but what did you get to see about actually getting to see mirror hugh colbert because in the first season the writers of that show deliberately did not put him in the mirror universe because they said he's too innocent to be evil big fan of the eyeliner or biggest fan of the eyeliner i love the eyeliner i love seeing all them all their mirrors counterparts i mean it's it's always fun to see them step out of the character that we know into something new so yeah yeah what did you think nathan did you actually i mean when that first season happened they purposely didn't give us you cobra in the mirror so i personally was surprised that we got to see him in this third season because i just remember they didn't show us him so i was like oh i guess he's not there right i guess he didn't exist or he wasn't around but what did you think of actually getting to see hugh coburn his cool medical outfit too the mirror of universe medical outfits awesome i really liked it and i really enjoy also um how they get these characters to basically play to chew up the scene to be people that they're not i liked it i i am a fan of him even more so now since he's come back from the mushroom world so never forget they snapped his neck so he could live in the spore network and rub tree bark all over himself i'll never forget because of a tear because of a magical teardrop i'll never forget none of that makes sense to me i've listened to the writers explain it all and i still don't get it but you know that's me i look i was thrilled to see hugh colbert in it um because when we were watching the show we were doing our podcast see that's the difference to him we're watching this season this was the first season we were watching it where we were also analyzing star trek discovery for uh our show so we were like doing season one season two i'm listening to all the press junkies i'm listening all this them explain why hugh colbert didn't have a character in season one and justify why he wasn't in the mirror of the universe by saying see hugh colbert is the emotional heart of the show and he's too pure and innocent to be shown in the mirror verse so we're never gonna show him in the mirror universe and i'm like thank god that we got different show showrunners because i thought it was [ __ ] back then that we didn't get to see him in the mirror universe and i'm happy that we actually got to see him in it this time around and wilson cruz is although in this episode he didn't get as much to do he is chewing the scenery in a wonderful fashion he felt like he was he felt like he learned a lot from jason isaacs when he worked with him in season one because he felt like he was honing in on what jason isaac's level of camp he was while um siniqua martin green she's doing like a full-on tos style like campy mirror universe like over-the-top like maybe ds9 as well but wilson cruz he kind of he phone like he kind of leveled it down a bit to what jason isaacs was kind of bringing us in in season one which was nice to see it really was the desire that we never see him in the mirror universe because we wanted to make sure that he stays that the image of colbert continues to say pure yeah and and and absolutely not evil we didn't want to show that side of him so ultimately we made the decision not to have wilson appear in the mirror universe rachel what would you rate this episode terra firma part one would you give it a yum meaning bad or yum yum being good


yum yum yum yum i am happy enough to give it a a yum yum yum yum so um patrick what would you give this episode a yum or a well i liked it so i'm gonna give it a yum yum yum yum it's very yum yum uh nathan what about you yum meaning bad or yum yum being good oh i'm sorry yum yum yum yum


wonderful stuff so next episode we'll be covering part two with your other two hosts um since you guys are a four hosted show we thought it would be best to split you between the two um so that everyone can get a moment to speak and whatever and i'll be very keen because i know one of your other hosts is a very big joe fan so hopefully we don't rip each other's throats out as i say georgia is a fascist and i don't like her so nathan could you tell us all what uh imdb has to say about the second part of this of course giorgio uncovers the true depths of the plot against her leading her to a revelation about how deeply her time when the uss discovery truly changed her that that would be fun um hopefully i i will say i personally remembered enjoying the second half a lot more than the first half on the initial re on the initial watch but who knows things have changed on this rewatch it might maybe flipped around it may be mirrored the many jokes we had here if you're going to torture me at least let me have some fun starfleet underground guys tell us where people can find your show where can people look you up and follow you on the social medias where are you guys at we're on you can find us you can find us on starfleet starfleetunderground.com that's our website and it's the cornerstone to show where we are because we're starfleet under g on twitter we're also on instagram and if you have siri or if you have alexa just say to play the starfleet underground podcast the latest episode we also have a patreon look for us for starfleet underground where you can get postcards uh pictures of tribbles being neutered as well as maybe it may be real or not real nude pictures of the crew what so there are things there so remember not for kids people not for kids no not for kids you don't want to pay that money anyway and if you do you don't want


you guys do a great job i would definitely say for you people out there listening if you're wanting a bit more of a positive take on on star trek discovery in the modern star trek era these guys definitely do a good job you always always have some interesting things to say i definitely follow follow them on the social media you guys have great social media posts i like your little videos i like to comment on them and every now and then and be like what about what about kern um so yeah definitely do all that we'll have all of these in the description of this episode as usual you can find us on the same social medias we're on facebook instagram twitter reddit all those yum yum pud yum yum podcast we're always posting there you can follow us on patreon as well uh yum yum pod on the patreon uh where we review other episodes of star trek the best of and worst of rated episodes according to imdb we also talk about the star trek movies once a month and we give our thoughts on other things whether they be tv shows video games so on and so forth so check us out on all of those do do the stuff lead underground a favor if you're listening to them already and you and or you're going to and you like their stuff rate and review on all those podcatches do the same for us it's always appreciated always good to know the feedback from you the listeners out there uh rachel i think it's time to leave now i've got to um torture some some people to learn my lesson agonizer booths we go wait now where do we where where do we stand in order to get this transform uh transporter back to our our ship well you can stand there you can stand on our little transporter pad and we'll transport you out into space so that you'll help cool so that your ship can transport you in the knicker time so that you can give them the little floppy disk of our we of our ship's weakness thank you so much and wait your transporter pad is a smiley face how cool is that yeah thank you with the little tongue sticking out because it's going yum yum nice you're ready pat we're gonna get back to the ship okay thank you so much