Yum Yum Podcast

Yum Yum Trek: The Sanctuary

Episode Summary

Book must face his biggest challenge yet! Family drama!!! SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast

Episode Notes

Welcome aboard the Starship Yum Yum in which we your intrepid hosts Ryan and Rachel Sliwinski try to break down episodes of Star Trek: Discovery without having a breakdown ourselves. This week on Yum Yum Trek we discuss “The Sanctuary“ 
Engage the Yum Yum!








Twitter: @YumYumPodcast

Facebook: @YumYumPodcast

Instagram: @yumyumpod

Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast


Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2NbEuaH

Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2CjDLSs

Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/37NheZP

Simplecast: https://bit.ly/2ASPib8

RadioPublic: https://bit.ly/30WxQ01

iHeartRadio: https://ihr.fm/2VnKBgq

Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3hIryqF

TuneIn: https://bit.ly/3dDzjuP

Youtube: https://bit.ly/3dk7tDA

Episode Transcription

hello rachel ryan sorry you just caught me off guard with you you doing all right brother i don't like this i do not like this you you love it you love it you [ __ ] love it you yummy [ __ ] dog [ __ ] dog you joined in so you do i [ __ ] die so i'm ryan that's rachel we are a married uh item i guess and we buried item we're no longer freshly married sorry we're now just an item you would typically say married couple well we have our own individuality yeah but there you go but sorry just the indication of the relationship between the two people to each other or more than two people


in case it's just the two of us so we are a married couple i don't want to narrow it down maybe we want to maybe want to add like like jesus no bigamy allowed trans worms eating people yes no big giving i didn't say we had to marry someone else in to see does it still count as big a meme if one of you is like if two of them are married but there's just another one there but you're not trying to marry them right that's what bigamy is right yeah is it there's equal status i'm not saying that commitment think of me with a bigamy podcast where we talk about bigamy and bigamy laws how cool it is i think if it's not a sister wife or sister husband brother husband i don't know situation if it's not like multiple wives or multiple husbands then it's just like polyamory or an open relationship this is so much more interesting than the episode yeah so there's going to be a lot of devolving conversations away from discovery so yeah that's it we we're with the yum yum podcast because we have that yum yum and yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum we uh of course that's a reference to star trek discovery which is the show that we are discussing we are re-watching star trek discovery and giving our thoughts on the episodes what season and what episode are we doing today we're up to season three and we are up to episode let's see if my memory can remember it episode memory says if memory serves is it is it episode eight is it episode eight because it must be an even number one if i'm reading it yes episode eight um if people have not seen star trek discovery spoilers of course because we are rewatching it and we are talking about how it all fits together and how it all um feels so there you go you've been warned about that and as always we have so much to talk about so consider this your requisite spoiler warning for the day and this one is called the sanctuary the fun fact about this episode is it is the lowest rated episode of the entire show coming in at a staggering 5.6 on imdb yeah only a 5.6 only a 5.6 which is which is a which is actually surprisingly low for for for this show um so the plot according to imdb and i like that they have one um because it's more than the episode uh it goes as such the uss discovery crew travel back to book's home planet to help rescue it from osira the formidable leader of the emerald chain stamets and adira continue their search for valuable information on the origin of the burn i i just want to have a nitpick with your comment then what there's a difference between a plot and a synopsis yeah and that was a vague synopsis oh okay


this was a great episode filled with many synopsis i don't want to give any credit to this episode having anything related to an actual plot even a plot summary on an external website that somebody maybe it's cbs put up there cbs all access let's just jump in to our history and our thoughts on because i think the two are going to be very the same comment i thought this episode sucked when i saw it the first time and i thought it sucked when i watched it today it has not changed it to me is not the worst episode of the season but it is definitely the one of the bottom ones definitely in the bottom three i think people of earth is still a worse episode than this but this is a close close second to that i i think this episode was boring tedious and the word i would use to describe it the most is embarrassing this episode is drenched in cringe and embarrassment i was embarrassed watching the sanctuary i felt embarrassed for the cast i felt embarrassed for the crew and i definitely definitely felt embarrassed for the writers because this is what they turned in and i i just go oh boy you guys you guys needed like 15 more drafts before you should have handed this bad boy in what did you think of this episode when you saw it first and now i thought it was awful the first time and very cringy i think on the first viewing my tactic was to leave the room to do housework yeah to do stuff to do no no to do stuff because you have a life and it's and it reminds you that you have that and you should be filling it with activities i have better things to do with my time including all the things that i never want to do so that they don't get done and i'm like okay you know what i'm gonna empty out the fridge and clean it out yeah that's what i'm gonna do and you kept on being like rachel where have you gone and i'm like i'm just doing a thing quickly but you're missing out on osiris she's finally here we've been building up to it for [ __ ] ages but she's here now and you kept on pausing it and being like no i'm not watching this without you yeah you got to suffer this too and then on this viewing since i knew that leaving wouldn't help you had to watch i had to watch but uh maybe three moments i literally put my fingers in my ears and started humming so i didn't have to listen because the dialogue that dialogue oh boy i also shut my eyes for most of them as well i think because i was like i'm just blocking all of this out the obvious thing that is the recurring statement that we have made about this episode and this season and seems to be the consensus for the most part is it's boring um this episode is tedious as hell it really feels like we are wasting time but more no no no just wasting time this is this is padding this is so much padding because now we've watched the whole season there was really not 13 episodes worth a story to stretch out with the burn the burn did not need to go for that long but that's how many episodes a season had and they feel the need that every season has to have the overarching mystery that has to go for the whole season this is very similar to me and i'm so sorry to everyone listening but i have to get on my high horse for a second in babylon 5 the fifth season of babylon 5 got made after they got told that the show was going to be finished and cancelled after the fourth but it got brought back so the creator of that show had what he originally intended to be a three to four episode story arc and had to stretch it to 10 to 11 and that is the most despised aspect universally of that show because he had to stretch it out because there wasn't enough material in his brain to conjure up for the 22-25 episode season so he had to stretch out a three-episode arc to 10. it reminds me of that in babylon 5 where they clearly had an idea but they had to stretch it out to meet the time every season though the many jokes should be had here if you're going to torture me at least let me have some fun what about this episode is just ineffective at being entertainment to the point of tedium okay let's look at it from structure i guess the overview so this episode is about book going back to his home planet because osiris is after him yes and then since ren is on discovery who's the andorian that they picked up a couple of episodes ago osara decides that she also wants to get him back i took it as she knew rin was with book somehow no i um well she she did already know that because we saw the conversation with her nephew before and she wanted him with the transformation she knew if she lured a book i would have rin there too somehow confirmation of that because she scanned discovery yes and they were mutually scaring each other oh i scanned you all night long scared me all night so so so again the structure yes sorry there are these steaks yeah and i meant to care what happens to books home planet because michael cares about book yeah but i don't care about michael so i don't care about books so i don't care about books home planet another thing that makes you not care about books home planet is and i i really do mean this i was i i my biggest surprise re-watching season 3 is how little is actually shown lots of things happen off-screen this season and one of the things that makes you not care about his home planet is we don't see the repercussions of the dangerous thing that's happening to the home planet we don't see any form of destruction from the locusts we're just told we are told that they're beginning to to destroy harvests we don't even see that no they couldn't even show us a shot of a field covered in in locus eating it because that would mean that they'd have to animate new cgi assets instead of the blue floaty things they've had since season one and they've just kept reusing them in different ways and just calling them new things this time around they added legs to them like i like how can you not show that that's just basic 101 this place is suffering from this show us footage of it suffering from that but they they don't so that also makes you not care you need that money to go towards the boom booms


no not even the boom booms and there are booms there are boom booms you know yes there's a tremendous amount of time and effort and frankly love put into all the cg work on the show that is not where we start the cg work on the show is there to support the emotional story period but i was specifically thinking of the glitchy hologram that osira is when she calls down to the planet because that's there to remind us she's a hologram yep but also because of their defense field bouncing around right and we can't cut away from that to show what she's saying yeah to show to show yeah like what you said is this really hinges on you caring about michael and books relationship but and them as characters and them as individual characters to really care about his family and his character drama but we've only just seen them form a relationship we've already had an issue with the fact that they weren't in one from the beginning uh which seems like a really odd choice because that could buy us some leeway right oh they've been together they spent this magical year off screen again everything's off screen and by the time we come back and meet her a year later she's in a relationship with this sexy guy right we could buy into a little more because it's like well they've been in a relationship for a little while right but in this show they only just kissed the other episode and now we're supposed to be deathly afraid of no book's brother that we've never heard of before oh no not him and his planet with the sea locust that's the thing too the the this feels like an enterprise episode again in terms of like enterprise would be like and the stakes of this episode is one of our crew members tripped over and broke their leg on a comet and we've got to get them out of there before the ice comes this is like one of those episodes again where it's like and the and the threat is locus aren't you afraid of the locust except for you can't be because they don't even show the repercussions of the locusts you know what tell me what they grow oh i can't tell you harvests they just have they went to the harvest what do they grow what do they live on just this species is like because most of the time you just pass book off as human but he's an empath michael burnham meet the sea locusts cuisines plague


here's another thing structural that's interesting you said as did the description book this episode is not about book because he barely gets any screen time he barely gets any development how does the episode start the episode's about books around him does it does it yeah then who does the first 10 minutes focus the episode on do you remember because books not the guy book is not the person of central focus at the beginning of this episode but no no who opens this episode no jojo


you forgot that because it wasn't the focus of the episode he is general structuring focus at the beginning who the character of focus is like again simple 101 stuff start the episode off with the character that's going to be the story book walks in after all this georgio stuff so you think oh this is going to be a georgio episode and then it's suddenly a book episode and you're like oh okay i guess it's about book but they keep cutting away from book so much and since you already had subconsciously planted in your brain well book isn't the focus because if he was they would have started off with him as the focus correct so you cut back to georgio you cut back to detma you cut back to tilly you cut back to paul and adira and then you go back down to the planet so we have five we have like 15 plots so um so roo trying to figure out his catchphrase i guess you could call that a plot or thread well and we could possibly split adira's stuff into two of the pronouns and and the data the data you've got poland or joe with the medical drama you've got osira attacking the the planet and you've got him down there on the planet trying to um reconnect with his brother yep that's it like i know in debt miss ptsd how could i forgive oh yeah and lioness you're shedding that comes up multiple times oma is as important as ptsd for detma that the skin shedding i'm going to show you something amazing


his name is linus and you can peel off a part of his face if you want it's a structural issue of the script and the story you focus so little on him in the first act you can have episodes that have that many things happening but they all feel distinct so it feels like a scatter plot yeah and just being like we have this thing over here and this thing over here and oh we need a communicate moment so let's mention linus shedding his skin but again i keep stressing this and i keep saying it over and over again but the order in which you present things in the episode and to the audience will tell us the viewer what the episode's going to be about you can subvert that you can do different stuff with that but usually that is what it is so you open this episode up and it's all georgio georgio's all over the [ __ ] store here she's just selling out her she's just selling gags hey do you want to buy some of my gags in fact i'm not going to sell you them i'm just going to [ __ ] scream them at your face i'm a sperm and you just you just go okay so jojo's the focus of this i thought she would be the focus of the double powder next episode but oh it's this and then and then book came in and i was like oh that's right this is a book episode it's like with naan remember how we kept saying in that naan episode it was so funny to realize that this was going to involve her in any way because they never they never gave us any indication that she was going to be important to this story until the back half it wasn't as drastic in this case but it was just like the first act of this book is just floating around then he walks in and he goes my brother he's in trouble we should go there and then let's talk to the admiral who's also here in the episode and he's just like you know what your brother he sounds pretty rad go save his life like it's it's looney tunes book we're talking about him do you still like him because at the start of the season you said he was charming and when the show didn't have him around it really lacked energy and presence but now that we're re-watching it and we have this episode where it's all book all the time but not really do you still like him all that much currently i have to give book a yum yum is it because he didn't take his top off this episode if he took it off would they make you give a yum yum no no i mean have you seen him with his top off though pretty yum yum himself this is yum yum i will agree with you there but he says so many dumb [ __ ] things in this episode and particularly the dialogue with his brother is so overwritten and obvious it's like it's sickly oh it's it's sickly and also the the the screen that we're looking at is sickly to look at because it's piss yellow for some [ __ ] reason yeah uh you know i i the writing is so overwrought here and we've talked about this it reminds us of people of earth they're not talking like people they're just saying exposition and or they're the writers writing and what i mean by that it is the writer is just saying this is the theme this is the conflict this is the ark this is the most witty response that we can come up with


these people do not know one another they just state facts about one another but you don't feel like they're real brother like you don't feel like they're brothers who know each other who actually have lived lives they do not feel real and to that point like it's not just that they don't feel real and there is a certain amount of reality to they shouldn't know each other because they haven't spoken in i think i say 15 years yeah


but they never feel like they used to know each other no they never have that level of chemistry of like a flicker of i used to know or i i know you because of that thing because they do those things with him and michael we've seen star trek many times bring in siblings fathers grandparents whatever it is to come in and cause conflict crash's dead grandmother for one oh yeah crushes crushes grandmother but obviously luxanna troy there's the episode where ryker's dad comes on the ship as well in this episode though what fails is in their dynamic and we've said it many times in star trek discovery it is unambiguous who's right and who's wrong in the scenes his brother is never portrayed as a even momentarily sympathetic person you never get the a glimpse that this guy is a good guy he is just wrong a bad thing because he has a daughter and that's it oh son sorry because he has a son but they never make you sympathetic for him in any minor way other than the basic knowledge of he has a child which they withhold that information from us the audience for a majority of the episode until osiris brings it up threatens the kid essentially but it's in that weird way where it's meant to be like she's so villainous but you know threatening me but you know what i'm saying but you know what i'm saying there's not a moment in which they instantly start the conflict where he ambushes book with his merry band of people who never stop book really but he ambushes him immediately like [ __ ] you book i hate you it's like angst angst angst drama drama drama there's not that one moment where he tries to be nice and be like book i'm so busy there's no meeting of the minds attempted really like there's moments where they're discussing things but it always just evolves discussing you mean just stating things yeah i use the word discussing by default because they take turns talking about a particular topic you're at each other at each other i stopped being a tourex when father and grandfather started working with the emerald chain and they both asked for you under death bets you're a man of character or you aren't maybe they remember that in the end oh so righteous someone has to be it goes back to the facts that there's no stakes and you know exactly how it's going to play out you know that book is going to have to get over himself and his brother is have to get over get over himself they're going to have to both join up again save the day and realize that family is important and that they're going to be in each other's lives for now on it's so obvious and it could still play out like that but add some nuances to it i can't tell you a single thing about his brother as a character i can tell you facts that they said like like like book has so many like again overall lines he has lines like um you're a man of good character we don't witness that you stand up for what you believe in and the witness is just like you've never stood up to me they just state it show us it i do not like the episode with riker's dad but i could tell you about who riker's dad was because of actions his dad did in that episode not just things they said about him that's an episode i don't like but i at least know who that man is after all these years i will never i don't even know what his brother's name is could not tell you his name just watch the episode damn dafondo yeah yeah really think about it you don't know his name i know that book's name is trex which is t-rex so have fun with that in your brain he's a dinosaur now with little arms but he stopped speaking dinosaur he stopped being a dinosaur to become to become a bookie


ah far out this is this is just so this episode stinks is can we just go to the heat often no damn it ryan why must you make me suffer because you must we are [ __ ] on this episode royally but is there anything good in it was there something you liked was there something that you thought was genuinely well done anything no you sound unsure because i don't feel definitively that there there is nothing that i can give genuine praise to if i thought about it there may be something that i'm like oh you know what like that wasn't as bad as the rest of it but it still wouldn't be a genuine good thing can you think of anything genuinely good about this episode not a thing okay but here's the dilemma i don't hate this episode yet it has no redeeming factors it has done nothing well it's everything is terribly done under baked overcooked sometimes like we said with the writing it's overwrought but there's just so little to it but i don't walk away going this [ __ ] episode i hate it like people of earth people of earth insulted my intelligence but this is again the the ready for my analogy for this episode then it's like the winter olympics it's like a slip and slide no cheetos always a different one okay okay gotta go with a different one this time it's a cake and they've put too much butter in the pan so it's burnt on the edges and still liquid in the middle yeah i can look at it and go that's meant to be a cake but in its state it is not an edible cake people will still eat it because it's cake yes cake is eternal


cake is a term this episode is an example of the lower budget this season obviously because it takes place in the forest for most of it and when they do go to a location on the planet it is just some guy's house with a chandelier on it which was really funny we never get to see a village we never get to understand that there's more than just some guy's house here um the budget no harvest to be seen and no harvest to be seen nope the budget definitely shows itself here by that but also by the wa i'm going to say this as a budgetary thing as well as just laziness paul and adira are in this episode doing stuff apparently and when we meet them immediately they're like oh yeah we did this test thing that would have been its own episode off screen again and we figured out what about that yeah no you're supposed to um and we figured out where the burn is coming from um we did that off screen again like we do with most of the things that happened within this season we've done it off screen but you've come over and now we're going to spend a whole scene talking about how we did it off screen instead of watching watching it happen watching the journey and the adventure happen we're just going to talk about how it happened instead of actually doing it why spend a five why spend the whole scene talking about how you did it instead you're spending a whole scene actually [ __ ] doing it i don't understand other than is it just a budget thing or laziness i don't know they they have enough budget to make that massive like holographic version of the nebula yeah they spend their budget weirdly you you know one of the interesting things here is they answer the most important question of all what where's that creepy music coming from oh the song that everybody knows we all care i said a good chuckle when tilly said hey i know that song it's familiar and then stamet snaps his head round and says it's from these events which neither of those characters were involved in no tilling has never heard this music before no but tilly's like i know this music's like dude no you don't no in the context of the show i get the cutaway footage oh yeah of the other characters that were in those episodes experiencing that yeah and people just go for a reminder people go people could yeah just to remind us because we're dumb but because the mystery is so little what is there to remember but you know what's interesting people would say right now ryan obviously tilly was told about the music or tilly heard the music herself over the over the radio waves of the whatever when on the communicators when they were on the seed ship those weren't in those that was never shown in the episodes never shown again no showing not telling you know they don't know how to do that they just tell tell tell but did you find this at all like why is this here why is this mystery thing here the only reason that i can kind of think it would be a reason why is that without it they wouldn't have a secondary mystery that points in the direction of the location but they spent so little time on the secondary mystery then why is it even here you're right though in terms of they also needed it to bolster up the burn because there's actually not a lot of uh stuff to build it up because they don't show us the cause like they don't show us the major effects of it in the way that you would think and so what is what do you do what happens if there's this mysterious song and it leads to where the source of the burn is but and i don't know how they come up with these weird steps you know and do you remember what the cause do you remember what the song is it's the isn't it it's partially the distortion of their distress signal it's the distress signal has been distorted from the radiation that's in the planet so it's distorted to sound like music but all it is is just a distress signal yeah people still don't know that that's what that is even though the series has explained it because it is so inconsequential to the grander scheme of things why the [ __ ] would you remember that detail yeah i remember being confused i assumed that it was like just a subspace frequency that was carrying a lullaby nope from the mum that dies no it's the distress signal it's just been distorted to sound like a lullaby and it's been playing throughout all of space that it's subconsciously gone into people's brains like a secret message it's i don't know why it's here like does this add anything to adira and paul's um relationship because that's what all this is right it's in service of paul and a deer are doing stuff to bond yeah but it's also just here to fill out time that's what it feels like that's what this whole episode feels like as well is adira a good character yet for you they're not fully a character to me why they've been here for so long now and everyone smiles and nods and says they're super smart i love them even so their work has been nothing short of stellar they're really something they feel more like a deus ex machina than a character they feel like a prop for the plot i look at adira as this somebody wrote the name adira down wrote trill dead ghost lover um surrogate child and then that got blurred like when it got fat and that's how i think of adira that's how i think of adira is a very faded facts of an idea because then adira is not a character that i think is a is a three-dimensional character or one that deserves to even be here i look at a deer and i look at them and go i can kind of see why you're here but all the stuff that you do happens off screen and then when you actually are on screen it is just paul looking at you lovingly and saying you're special you're great and that's kind of it and it's like is that bonding it's like they're not doing stuff together like we've seen paul bond with people like tilly we've seen that happen but this it's like it's all off screen again and when we do see him on screen he's just paul saying you know you know adira you're pretty great or hey hey hey you you know adira they're pretty great pretty smart pretty cool they're like the bomb huh you're kind of like the bomb huh when they did the adira is going to say the pronouns stuff many people got turned off by it because either they are not familiar with this they think it's a woke agenda blah blah blah all of that stuff i find to be stupid what turned me off about it is i still don't understand why they just weren't non-binary from the beginning i i don't think this added anything it's not as if their gender identity has been a character trait we've seen ever explored up until now so it really does just kind of feel like out of nowhere and on a re-watch all it all you see in the re-watch is every now and then they have that really funny awkward reaction shot of when somebody calls them a her and they just kind of bite their lip a little and i'm like okay but that's not that's still not a pl and okay here is one way that you could improve that yeah make it clear that adira is not fully comfortable on the ship yet yeah that they're not sure how trustworthy or accepting the characters are of difference and of like gender related stuff so that there's a reason that they haven't corrected people and their pronouns yet or the simplest thing too don't make it that a dear from the start have them start like that yeah obviously that's the obvious one i mean duh but the other one being is have paul and adira have an adversarial relationship to begin with and carry that through because basically he's a little bit annoyed at them at the beginning and then instantly is like i love you you're like my child now straight away there's no like animosity towards either like between them so you could say like if there was an adversarial nature between them you could see why adiro would feel uncomfortable coming out about their gender but again it just feels it feels so awkward and why here's a question what does it matter in this episode them coming out as non-binary what does it tie to thematically there is no answer that's why i wasn't answering you there's no answer it is just it's a scene that's here to fill out the time and it doesn't necessarily have to have a thematic link if it felt like it had character importance yeah but it doesn't have that and it doesn't have a thematic link like again why is it in this episode why wasn't it in last episode why is it not in that one episode make it from the start if it's not a big deal and it doesn't need to be important to the plot of an episode just have them be non-binary open from the start i've never felt like a she or or her so i would prefer they or them from now on osira she's the villain of the season apparently she's the big bad she's the golden cut of the season she's the one we've gotta shoot in the face in the final episode what do you think of her nothing i think she's nothing i think she disappears into nothing and i do not think about her you don't love this magnificent performance you know she's so captivating she rocks those pleather pants i guess you know what i'll give her this i'll give her this she's a commanding presence no i'll give her i think that whether you don't or not i think i think because well i say no because it goes against my point i'm gonna make she's one of the few villains i've seen in recent times in which the actor playing them genuinely has apathy she she feels like she doesn't want to be there i know um no i had to agree with that but it feels like a performance held at gunpoint no i i don't don't feel that way they're a paycheck performance


yeah yeah i can say that yeah i'll put on this goofy makeup and [ __ ] but i'm not gonna [ __ ] emote and if so i'm gonna do it very very little yeah cuz have we brought up that they didn't just paint her they put her in all these heavy prosthetics andorians they can't just paint them green no sorry andorians orions the orions they can't just paint them green or make up put make their skin green they have to put them in like this thick layer of prosthetics where they look like they're covered in wax so it's like they're bolted in and they can't emote they can't turn their heads through because they're not doug jones because they're not doug jones they don't know how to emote and act through this prosthetics it's it's it's i think you said one time before one of the reasons that they can't emote as well as someone like doug jones is they have no um no definition to their face on their in the makeup it is just blank so with dogs there's no parts that can move or looks like there's um movement there or expression because with doug jones right he's in like makeup but it has curves and lines and bumps and ridges and and things that accentuate expressions that he himself cannot do because he's under makeup right but with the orions it is just green skin and so you have this thick layer of makeup that's just green and blank with no like lines or definitions or things to uh accentuate expressions so you just have these people who look bored while they talk at you yeah cause osiris main function is to be annoyed at everybody around her so that's the main expression that comes through her eyes is either apathy or annoyance because the rest of her face can't move she's just a [ __ ] waste of space as a villain i i don't understand why they thought you know what we should tease this villain out for the whole season and and in this episode the slow burn character drama about book this is where we drop in our big bad who's like [ __ ] you federation you're done for when you have actually no characterization for her i don't know how to describe her character other than she is there to be a force that's not a character that is just a function of an antagonist she is there to oppose i think hatred is the wrong word i think that she doesn't necessarily believe that they deserve to be held in such high esteem she works very hard for her people to advance themselves and yet they don't enjoy the same reputation as the federation so i think possibly envy is a better way to go than hatred mental health is something that can be explored very interestingly through pieces of media you have a keen interest in mental health stuff uh more so than i you watch lots of videos read lots of stuff you know talk about lots of things yeah and some of that is like my own stuff and my own issues with mental health and people around me particularly my family but it's also a consequence of being a high school teacher and yeah wanting to be aware of the mental health of my students in the way that i can help them or be aware of signs of things so that i'm looking out for their welfare and doing my job when it comes to those things but you can just cure all that if you fly real good right well well she does explain it that is essentially an extreme version of exposure therapy because she's just like if i just do the thing that i'm scared of i'll be cured and she's scared of flying the ship so she just flies the ship and she does it manually so she's the one that's fully in control we talked about this when we had our episode with julio but watching it back then and now re-watching it it's so unclear that that was what was her fear was fear of flying fear of driving the ship because of the way her ptsd worked in this show was like it was like it was directed at so many other things and then when at the end it was like if i just keep flying but this time with joysticks then i'm cured of my ptsd is that a way look is extreme exposure therapy something that i it would actually cure ptsd i'm pretty sure that's a big fat no can you just well that's the thing though right like that's the thing like ptsd is very much an ongoing thing and we've labeled it maybe it's more just like kind of situational anxiety about her workplace performance but we we have labeled it i don't know because i don't listen to the extra stuff have the creators and the writers of the show oh they've barely even talked about it they they talk about it like she's just having a really tough time this season you know she's she's having to deal with a lot of baggage you know we were just so happy that we got to touch upon how hard it must have been to lose things and again if that's what it is then how does drive in the ship real fast cure that if it's about loss what did she lose her family and everything in the past but we don't know anything exactly like rachel we lost things during the battle we talked about this with julio but what does flying the ship real fast do in in conjunction with that nothing no but but now but now it's her cause but now the cause of her problems is actually her her insecurities about flying the ship real good which again even re-watching it i it still wasn't comprehensive and clear that that was the issue very easily just be that like her anxiety elsewhere is manifested in this thing and it's all about control but that is not the text i was gonna say you use the word could a lot and that's thing you could go could be could be could be all the time with how discovery writes plots like this because they don't spend the time on it and they don't actually have anything nuanced or deep to say about it other than they just want you to have those dramatic shots of her looking angry and oh saying hey you're good you're a good person and then at the end she she fist pumps in the air and is basically yelling i'm cured of this storyline now yay it's over that's the thing mental health is something that you can easily explore in your story but it feels very disrespectful when all it feels like is it was nothing but a plot it just feels disrespectful to you know the the issue of mental health because obviously they're walking in wanting to say in their press junkets we're tackling heavy issues this season like ptsd mental health problems all that and that makes you think oh okay there's gonna be something heavy there's going to be something said here but when it just but when it just ends i don't forget about discovery anymore no i know i don't i don't i do not trust them to deal with anything with actual reverence no no i don't either i don't think that they value anything they don't even value the ideals of the federation which they keep on signposting and lampshading all about the place but they don't actually do anything with them they don't actually grapple with the deep hurt that it would cause members of starfleet in the federation to have to say that like osira is doing all of these prime directive violations and genocides but admiral vance says it kind of like offhand and flippantly and like you know this is a deep wound for the federation but i'm gonna kind of make a a joke about it being a sport or what whatever the [ __ ] he says but it's just frustrating because they have the opportunity to do these really interesting things and to give really meaningful representation to not only people who have like a non-cis like adira is yeah or have experienced trauma like everybody on the crew has experienced a significant trauma like you like like you like denmark tilly gets that one scene where she's looking at badges and she's like my mom's dead but that doesn't affect her moving on there isn't like a support group there isn't um a counselor actively working there is that one plot line with suru trying to bring them together and then they have a big fight like a family does and then they make up and everything's fine and it's just like well that's not how it really works yeah growth and moving forward through your mental illness is not a linear process and your mental health isn't just done and you are fine and you cure you need to be fine in perpetuity until maybe like another trauma comes along especially if they went and actually dealt with detmer's mental health openly and publicly as ptsd i i'm not objecting and we're not objecting to the idea in a narrative that a character can find i just want it to be done well yeah but like that a character can find in a narrative um solace and inner peace and overcome the trauma of mental health issues but discovery does it in a way where it's like well one we needed to understand what the mental health issues were and make it feel like they're real and understandable and like things that people actually have something you know in a narrative although mental health issues are kind of incoherently all over the place in life in a narrative they need to make sense to the audience in a manner you know what i'm saying like i need to understand what's wrong with detma for me to then be okay with detma finding peace with what's wrong with herself i want it to have worth i don't want it to feel like all it was was just a plot p a plot point to pad out the season and then you ran out of ideas so then you just said and then she flew the ship real fast and then they had a little scene in the mess hole where they pumped their fists in the air and said i am the universe [ __ ] and that's it like oh ptsd cured just like remember how mental health issues no more it's why can't here's a bold one why can't michael's issues of identity are over they've decided to stay on the ship the bold thing to say is why did detmer's ptsd have to be a plot beat that had to have a conclusion why couldn't it just be she's a character that happens to have ptsd why couldn't it just be something it definitely didn't need to have a neat bow on it if they did decide to do it what i'm just going to say for shorthand properly if they wanted to do ptsd properly doesn't have a neat little bow and i don't want it to be like her character is nothing but ptsd in every episode we feature her she does the grimacing looks to the camera i'm just saying you can just have characters that have experienced trauma and that's just a part of who they are we know this to work because that's a lot of star trek characters that's wharf he's a war orphan it comes up a lot it's a defining trait of his personality and it definitely forged who he is it worked for him he was a great character i could list you 15 million characters in the star trek canon that have the exact same thing but it's not like every story is about their mental health stuff but hey we needed to cure her mental issues because we need to move on to the emerald chain as the big threat we were going to explore this this season and that demmer was going to be struggling a bit more than usual and sort of have a weight and a guilt um that she's carrying around for i think a combination of the battle of the binary stars and you know a rocky landing into the future speaking of looking for cures it's the


this episode he doesn't really just smile and nod ah here's a thing i've never thought about before what do you think about hugh and jojo as a pair pair up i don't think i've ever really thought about them as two characters that ever would interact with one another okay okay here is my thought on this i think it's [ __ ] ridiculous i think it's stupid and i think it's offensive to the idea of him being a doctor explain in my belief


it is general that most doctors have believe in the sanctity of life yes in georgio and they want to be saved they want to protect human life and most doctors when they are faced with somebody who has trem committed atrocities oh you're wanting a star trek story [ __ ] rachel you're not gonna get that no i'm talking about chase's storyline from house no you're also talking about the [ __ ] crusher and the doctor and all that like there's that episode of voyager where the doctor is like should i use this cardassian doctor's medical research even though he killed people to get it because people object to it should i should i know you're wanting an ethical drama yeah i want him to respect the ethics so let me continue that would mean you'd have to have a personality as a doctor for us to know that he has objections but go on so most doctors believe in the sanctity of life and protecting life and they deal with people who don't feel that way and they tend to respond to that person with animosity because it's usually fundamental beliefs that they hold and it's one that led them to becoming doctors or nurses or physicians or healers or whatever yeah right and then he says to the terran emperor to the nazi to the nazi to the woman who claims to have killed her own mother even though that's not true they get to make a joke about it not being true i mean yeah you've committed literal extinctions of whole species because of rach racial prejudice but you're a fun chick who likes to kick and make sexual innuendo so it's all good the doctor says to the genocidal emperor who claims to be nothing but pure evil who revels in being a racist he says to her a living death is not what i would wish for you and that's interesting because why doesn't he because he's a doctor he's a good man he's a good person he cares and i see that but i agree like it would but this is what we're saying we want a story we would want a story in which you or somebody morally objects to the idea of georgia being um treated medically because she's evil but that would cause drama that would be a different show or even like you know flip it a little bit make it about the ethical quandary if she is resisting or denying treatment which she is actively doing yeah she is actively saying i don't want this and they're just going it's for your own good so she lies down on the table it's like that's not that's not informed medical consent which they also should be doing as physicians well it's a future now so maybe medicines and consent is different to our modern day perspective on things can send us still consent yeah but and she's just because she's being a [ __ ] [ __ ] doesn't mean that you get to ignore what she's saying but that but that's that's the thing that could be a storyline in an episode where you have the same one with literally it's called ethics in tng in which crusher has her medical ethics about what going through a injury that in his ethics he wants to kill himself rather than be paralyzed another doctor thinks that she has the right medical ethics see it's about ethics but what you want we don't have the time for that we do not have the time to talk about the metaphysics or the ethics or any of that what we do have the time for is for georgio to make jokes and for a throwaway line for you to say about how he feels about having children and that he has cold hands i i brought up that we've not seen these two interact that often if ever and i bring it up because they are terrible in this scene acting wise and i put it down to direction because in this first big scene hugh is sitting down in this giant chair and he's just like so like rigidly stiff and his head is just kind of like tilting around watching her walk around the room and he's just saying these lines so stiffly and so robotically against her who for the majority of the scene is having her lines done in adr because they evidently weren't good enough that day so that to get her to come back in and dub over them so i'm watching this scene and i'm watching these two actors who haven't seen act against each other that often if ever and i'm thinking to myself oh please never have them act against each other ever again because it is oil and water they just do not go together at all yeah hugh says if i had the time i would have a kid that threw me for a [ __ ] loop this guy could barely even comprehend the idea of being in a [ __ ] relationship like a month ago now he's like i want kids if he had time if he had time but that's the thing they're setting it up of this found family thing but like at no point during any of the show have we had a comprehensive idea of hugh as a character let alone him in a relationship let alone the idea of him being a parent i could not tell you if i watched season one in which that was okay if we did this show and that season this season had aired and we're doing season one i would have been looking wholeheartedly to see if them when they're in the healthiest form of their relationship if they were a couple that wanted kids because wanting kids is not the default no it is not automatically not everybody wants children not everybody can have children yeah it is a choice that people get to make neither of them seem like people to me that were ever interested in um like stamina clearly more interested in his research until adira comes out until adira comes along and then hugh just happens to say in this episode or oh i'm also interested in children in my life because there's no way for them to communicate ever that hugh has any interest other than just to say it out loud randomly and it really does throw you for a loop you're like oh i guess this is a fact i'm learning now if i had time i'd poison your children if i had time i'd have children now do you want my help or not what would you give this episode a yum or a yum yum yum yum i give this episode a yum yum it's just boring and terrible and bland and just it i still don't think it's even the worst one of the worst episodes of the entire show i still think woof inside is worse than this i still think light and shadows is worse than this but this is a thankless episode this is just joyless pathetic embarrassing cringy i've already forgotten about most of it so do you want to hear about the next episode we will be discussing no this could be really good this could be the savior um we are going to be discussing for the next episode the first part of a double patter terrafirma part one which is episode nine of season three so the plot synopsis of terra firma part one according to imdb is as such the uss discovery crew journey to a mysterious planet in hopes of finding a cure for georgia's deteriorating condition stamets and adira make a stunning breakthrough with newly acquired burn data cbs all access cbs all access rachel where can the people find us online what social medias are we on where they can interact and follow us well if they check out that description they will see those links to facebook instagram reddit and our patreon don't forget twitter twitter most of those can be found by searching yum yum pod or yum yum podcast we have a patreon in which we talk about other things we talk about the movies we talk about other episodes of star trek from all the other series we also give our thoughts on other things whether they be video games mainly tv shows um so check out our patreon yum yum podcast on patreon all of this is in the description and we have our email address yumyunpod.gmail.com that you can email us us at and let us know your opinions thoughts questions queries and concerns rachel what should people also do do what well i thought you're gonna say that it should give us a yum yum oh yeah it would be great if you could give us a yum yum which you know is obviously five stars or ten stars on or whatever yeah just write yum yum over and over and over again and we'll know that you like our show very much uh well that's it rach we're gonna have to finish this episode off by uh referencing that grudge is fat and grudge is a cat and that is a fact rachel did you know grudge is fat yes i knew grudge is a cat and thanks to the endorian i know that she is a pet did you know that she is a queen