Yum Yum Podcast

Yum Yum Trek: There Is a Tide... - feat. Jonas

Episode Summary

Jonas from The Short Shorts Podcast must face his biggest challenge yet! Rewatching an episode of Star Trek: Discovery. SUPPORT US: patreon.com/yumyumpod EMAIL US: yumyumpod@gmail.com FOLLOW US: Twitter: @YumYumPodcast Facebook: @YumYumPodcast Instagram: @yumyumpod Reddit: r/YumYumPodcast FOLLOW THE SHORT SHORTS PODCAST: Twitter: @TheShortShorts1 Listen: https://t.co/HkH1ORKoPU?amp=1

Episode Notes

Welcome aboard the Starship Yum Yum in which we your intrepid hosts Ryan and Rachel Sliwinski along try to break down episodes of Star Trek: Discovery without having a breakdown ourselves. This week on Yum Yum Trek we are joined by Jonas from The Short Shorts Podcast to discuss “There Is a Tide...“ 
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Episode Transcription

hi ryan hello rachel how are you good how are you i'm doing fantastic i'm here speaking with you about star trek discovery season three and i'm really excited because we're nearing the end of the season we're not quite there yet but i'm very very happy and very keen so close i could taste it can you taste it rachel that bitter taste will remain in my mouth for years but i can i can taste that it's fading yep so we are the yum yum podcast likingly because of the iconic line of dialogue yum yum from commander nandi remember that brilliant character rachel yes could you tell me an attribute about her yum yum ah you got it you nailed it good job thank you yum yum so uh we are going back and re-watching episodes of star trek discovery one episode at a time since it is a re-watch we are talking about them in the capacity of a spoiler discussion for those who have not caught up to date with star trek discovery what are you doing it's it's a show that you can watch and we're nearing in the second last episode of its current run just watch it so you don't get spoiled by us i would advise you not to watch it but that's just me oh rachel don't be so cruel but we aren't alone for this discussion rachel we brought in a guest we brought in the best scientist in the galaxy and a fellow podcaster a good friend uh jonas hello jonas how are you hey hey there i'm good so you've joining us for the episode of discussion that we'll be talking about which is there is a tide but please tell us a bit about yourself and and your podcast and what you do uh my name is jonas uh my podcast is uh the short shorts podcast uh it's just a podcast about short stories uh science fiction uh real life true crime all kinds of short stories very short yeah your episodes roughly go for like anywhere between a couple of minutes to like i don't know like what would you say is the max length of some of your episodes i think uh 15 20 minutes very few though most of them are are meant to be short and and and live so that people can just move on yeah yeah we we obviously found each other through the social media and i've been really enjoying you know just listening to your short your reading of short stories to and from when i'm going to work and whatever you have a very soothing nice voice so if people are wanting to get someone reading them some nice short stories or some creepy ones or some you know all that you kind of have a you you cover a wide spectrum of them i i've obviously us being star trek people we i like the science fiction ones but do you have any particular favorite uh genres or any particular favorite shorts that you've done on the show or had to read i like them all you know i made them all but uh mostly space universe aliens those are my favorite time travel time travel is huge but um whatever i react to and and whatever i can come up with put in a short story and and let it go do you have any um reference points for for science fiction like obviously we're here to talk about star trek i imagine you have a relationship to it but is there any other kind of authors or shows or pieces of science fiction media that you really like uh pretty much just anything related to space uh science fiction uh future um i'm not big on star wars and and that kind of universe but but mostly just signs you know science fiction mostly aliens and i seen i guess all of the science fiction movies that i've seen you know just just that's you could say that that's my inspiration yeah you sound like my dad my dad when you ask him what he likes science fiction-wise he's like i want it in space i want spaceships i want aliens i want i want all of that good stuff like my dad's also not a big fan of star wars and and uh all of that but yeah yeah and uh what's your relationship with with star trek and star trek discovery you could say that star trek was one of those shows that that opened my my science fiction hunger um starting with the next generation and then voyager and obviously this uh yeah i was so excited uh about this new new branch uh so but yeah it's you know i grew up with with the next generation and and and enjoyed it uh very much uh but what about star trek discovery what's been your general relationship and history with the show did you start watching it when it first came out are you in love with it do you hate it what's your what's your relationship with discovery well whatever it was it changed once i started listening to your podcast so thank you guys for that i was blinded no um i i mean given the level of of you know technology that we have now obviously i was expecting the best and in as far as like uh graphics and stuff we got that on season one and two um but as far as character development and and the writing i think that's where everything went down the the toilet uh i had big expectations for season three i mean it was time travel and they were going to an unknown world and they had such a much pretentious universe of they had so much potential and then you come 900 years later and you get michael and you get the same and it's like oh okay this is not what i wanted everything for the crown bags there yeah cronenberg's there and the guy from the mummy is the admiral and everything's kind of just the same as it ever was back in the first two seasons except for there's a different mystery and that's it kind of and then the mystery the stars that's a huge monster becomes some uh yeah it's it's not good so but no i i like the i like the story at the beginning uh the whole connection with with um with spock and everything i think it just through through the first season and then the second they just focus on michael too much and and we didn't get anything else and so it got a little boring go save the day michael so we're here to talk about the second last episode of season three there is a tide rachel could you tell us what imdb thinks the plot of this is after capturing the uss discovery osiris seeks a meeting with admiral vance while burnham and the crew must overcome unimaginable odds as they attempt to regain command of their ship that's the plot that's it that's the episode and uh you know what that's a concise plot uh rachel what was your opinions of this episode when you first viewed it and how do how how does it all stack up now i thought it was dull and a waste of time because they were just trying to stretch it out to be 13 episodes and they just were like oh we can do this thing cvs was like okay you do that thing you want die hard you want die hard we can do die hard it's fine it's not like everybody's done die hard and always including star trek almost every single one is better than this one but you can do it discovery you can do it do you remember that episode of tng where they did die hard kind of where picard was running around with like a bow and arrow and [ __ ] yeah it was great it was stupid it was stupid then too fun like this one especially on the re-watch it's just kind of like okay i get it i get it can we just move on because there's so many dramatic pauses oh whispers don't forget the whisper all of the whispers and all the dramatic pauses in this episode and it's like i get it it's the penultimate episode of your season you're trying to like stack those stakes up and it just collapses in on itself like trying to make a cake out of rice crispy treats i remember when i watched this episode i was just so relieved that we weren't on that [ __ ] planet anymore with sukhoi oh nebula is a saving grace of this episode i remember the first time because i hated that episode so carl but watching this one the first time i was like okay now this is just stupid and boring again mainly on the stupid side in terms of your michael running around and she's not being very tactical in her tactical way of trying to take over the ship again she's kind of just unhinged and crazy and i thought and it was what i honestly forgot happened in the in the season the only thing i remembered from it was the osira aspect of the plot and i remember that just because in the grander scheme of things i remembered it and thinking wow they really wasted that because where her thing goes is nowhere um upon re-watching it for this discussion i didn't hate this it was fine it just didn't do anything um exceptionally well interesting it felt like it scratched just the a bit of paint off in terms of hitting my interest it wasn't as if there was anything that it was explosively offensive to me or extremely dull or dumb but they just it felt like they didn't dig hard enough into the meat of what you could do with this i've enjoyed many a times in star trek the we take the ship back till he had a plan tilly has a plan i've enjoyed many times the let's take the ship back from the enemy plot and star trek and they've been in varying tones whether they be silly or or intense like one of my favorite deep space nine episodes is when the gem hedar take over the ship and bashir and ko are small like the the define has been shrunk down and they have to try and take over the ship again in a tiny defiant flying around the air vents and all that i i like goofy taking over the ship stuff but this one it was there it doesn't know exactly what tone it wants well that's discovery it wants all of the tones yeah yeah and it's not even like this storyline has this tone and this one has this one it's like they want to make you feel everything in the one scene yeah and this is an episode i would describe as describe as salvageable there's things here that i reckon like i feel like okay if i just screwed this in a little bit tighter and removed that from here this could be a bit more of a satisfying episode than it is but this uh there's an array of weird little things here and there that just dragged this episode down a notch from to it just angry but i don't think it's worth salvaging no no but you know i i i don't think there's enough here i think this episode just should have been cut down and had like two scenes yeah like one extra at the end of suit kyle and one more at the start of the next episode do you say that because also this feels like a very lackluster penultimate episode this is like the second last episode this feels like it should be episode seven yeah in which they get the ship back and then they're like that osiris stole the plans and we've got to stop her from replicating that's what it feels like it doesn't feel like yeah this is like the big stakes and then we've got to wait for next week to see how they're going to wrap this one up you know how they're going to wrap it up they're just going to get the ship back it's not that interesting no like it doesn't have a point where it's like oh this is interesting where are they going to go with this how are they going to manage to solve it they've only got one more episode left all of our characters are in these unique tricky situations and it's only them that can escape it with who they are no they're just going to shoot her in the face and move on we loved the idea of a well-rounded villain who had a strong point of view on this new future and a strong point of view of how to survive and was at odds with the federation and we really wanted to give that to osira this year


how do you feel about this in overall well i was still waiting even when the when last episode came up i mean i was binging it uh so i was like what that's it uh so this episode had like rachel says has no point and it's boring but i was waiting for something because you think okay this is about to be the end of the season so they're gonna every every episode counts every moment counts and you're waiting for that you're waiting for what they're gonna show you or what they're gonna present and besides you know burnham just running around acting you know that she's hurt uh nothing else happens and so for me it was the first time around it was just like okay i'm still waiting to see what what was the point and then now that i had to rewatch it over and over is just boring i mean it hurt me to just sit there and watch this again because i found no entertainment whatsoever you know it's it's just boring well what about this would be entertaining to you in in other contexts like we've seen these type of stories in star trek before where they have to take over the ship again or the bad guy wants to negotiate a plan why doesn't this meet that level of entertainment we've had with these type of stories in the past because it contradicts itself uh osira has a plan but she contradicts herself on one side she's going to the federation and on the other she's trying to get the sport drive and then um and then she's walking away from from you know from um unless she doesn't know you know you have a whole planet of dilithium and you're walking away because you you you don't care to think what are what are they doing here what's going on here let me scan it you know but i think that if it would have been better if they had if she if this was if making peace with the federation wasn't actually her plan you know if if if it was a disguise for her to like do something else like present her as evil if you want me to think that she's evil first of all i don't think she's evil because you know in her way she's pretty and she's green and she doesn't look evil oh so so so show me how she's evil you know yeah show me she's wearing a leather cat suit jonas that's how we know that she's evil she fed her nephew to a worm for no reason to show us that she's gonna shoot somebody in the face when she doesn't need to we're supposed to be the scientist guy who's like you're evil


not even her scientist guy knows that she's that evil you know it's so if you're gonna tell me that this this person has been you know is in charge of a whole you know population of people or or a whole whatever she is you know then show me why show me that she's evil instead she goes in like a puppy to the federation asking for peace and then that doesn't happen and in the meantime you know she she's trying to steal the the you know the sport drive you know but that doesn't even happen either so it's like what are you doing no it's this nothing happens that's a great thing yeah i'm up this episode and it's filled with contradictions and we spoke about this in in our previous episode and a few others is what we want from star trek is the logical tactical nature of our characters over the overly emotional and even with osira the tactical decision would be to not just steal the ship which she does but to then park it outside like you said and scan this nebula and determine oh that's what this is this is where this is okay i now know that there's this dilithium mine let me call up all my boys to come here and do this then she can transport back to the federation and not only just demand things but also call them out on their contradictions it's like well i know where this dilithium deposit is i've got it now i've got the spore drive i've got this or even just like sit there and let her scientist work on the spore drive before even going to the federation and just say i have the plans and i can replicate this now like she walks in um being a [ __ ] and then is upset that they don't want to abide by all of her demands because she refuses to be incarcerated for her crimes yet she doesn't have any she's giving them so many other things her argument is you guys are capitalists too so you shouldn't be hypocrites but she needs more than that and that's where it's like yeah we would want there to be a lot more strategy and a lot more logical thinking from our villain character as well as michael where michael one of the fun things about someone taking over the ship again is watching them methodically do it and figure out what to do and how to do this and how to exploit weaknesses that the enemy don't know about but michael just kind of her biggest strategic plan is she accidentally gets caught and then she decides well they don't know that i could shoot them out an air lock but like when the cowboy guy from episode two calls her on the communicator she seems like genuinely surprised that they figured it out so it wasn't even like she did this knowing that they would figure it out and she's lured them into a trap it was just by happenstance so there's nothing interesting there either and then tilly and co their plan is just to tap really loudly until they just punch the guys in the face and walk out so that's not that interesting either like you know what i'm saying rachel like is that any three of those plots where the characters operate with plans are any of them actually that interesting or are they just dull like jonas says yeah i don't think either of them really count as plans or strategic thinking no they're just like let's see what happens and witherness with a taking back of the ship episode there are bad ones of those in the past too and what they do to counter them because also star trek's like 50 plus years old we've seen this story done so many times so what do they do in star trek they give it a gimmick like in deep space nine the gimmick is they have to take back the ship but they're shrunken down to a small size or in voyager one of my favorite voyager double partners which is the only person who can take voyager back is the serial killer that they have imprisoned on the ship and he's totally up for killing people see that's a fun gimmick it's a fun addition to this tired story but in in discovery the only thing that's interesting here is osiris wants peace and then she decides no she doesn't and then walks away and it's like well she's not willing to give herself over in order to achieve peace yeah so she's not willing for she's not willing to actually attain peace if she was willing to attain it then she was willing to sacrifice herself but she wasn't so in the end we we spent a whole episode standing in one's place promising that we could move forward but in fact we moved nowhere i think that she fears that there would be no one else that would actually be able to stand up and continue the progress she's worked so hard to get her people where they are and so she's just not willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good well if i was osiris and i came across a whole planet of lithium and i capture star uh uh the sport drive and discovery i'm the queen of the world i'm the queen of the universe because i don't need the federation anymore because i have dilithium forever i have uh star trek discovery take it in there blow up the federation the federation is gone and now you rule the whole universe so what is the point of that yeah because also like exactly right because by the time she gets to the federation they have the plans for the sport drive they just need to figure out how to how to replicate the method of travel and even in this episode they hint at what the next episode will reveal which is empaths can use it they say that the scientist man says that it's like only empaths or people like you can operate this it's like oh well well are you telling me that the emerald chain doesn't have any people with empathic abilities in their collective of people or slaves like you know what i'm saying like so exactly right jonas where she's walking in demanding peace via the assumption that she's gonna run out of dilithium and have no upper hand but she openly admits and we know that she has the upper hand because she has the spore drive technology and can replicate it so why does she even need the federation her defense in her defense part of it is that she says that like nobody can be feared forever and they need the ideals of the federation in order to be sustainable she's looking to make the chain last for centuries beyond her rule and beyond the random kind of senate that they introduce oh jonas could you please tell me at any point when you watch this that you understood that the emerald chain was a body or like an organization with ministers and legislations and like a parliament did you understand that that was a thing that they were at any point until this episode came along and said that they were no because we we never learned about the chain other than her being a villain and and killing people and you know having slaves i really just assumed that it was like a mob syndicate yeah i assumed it was like a pirate group yeah where they just had a stranglehold on trade and that was it but apparently they have science institutes yeah and i was just like oh yeah like you know that that i can push aside because it's just like oh well they're evil so they need geniuses to make weapons that enable them to do their evil [ __ ] but she's an administrator government side of things like where where are where is that like yeah where is that good question where is it who's in charge how does the hierarchy work how does it are they elected do they or is it like a terran system where they have to kill their way up the ranks we'll never know because the emerald chain falls after disintegrates it disintegrates once they shoot osiris in the face she was the linchpin that held her together no no like it's so confusing how the mechanics of of all of this works in terms of like how the emerald chain works since we're talking about osira i want to say that i think they missed a huge opportunity with osira i think she's a dull character she's got no character she's one of the weakest villains i've ever seen in star trek especially one that's like a multi-episode recurring villain um i remember when they introduced the idea that she came in there to sign a diplomatic treaty i was intrigued because i was happy that it wasn't just oh and her plan is just to shoot things and she came in prepared she came in prepared she was willing to make all these legislation decisions which again and she'd apparently already set these up with the government yeah and that's a thing too rachel that also kind of counters what you said that goes into jonas what jonah said why do they need the federation you said it's because of their pr and their image but if they just did what she wanted to do which is to minimize the atrocities and to de-escalate the militarization and the evil of their of their organization wouldn't they slowly over time become the federation or become a good organization if they actually followed the morality of what she was trying to put down so again why do they need the federation but i was intrigued by the idea of osiris signing up for peace because uh because i was a little bit like oh okay she's not going to shoot them in the face and then they decided in fact we are going to make her just want to shoot them in the face and things gotta go boom and i feel like they just wasted a potential that i think i would have rather have seen the bad guy surrender and then just figure out what to do politically with her and to actually figure out do we sacrifice our morals and our values by teaming up with an organization that uh was willing to have slaves and do all these atrocities i'd rather have seen the political side that we've seen in star trek before you want to see the deliberation and the discussion and the ethics behind vance vance's decision to say like no we need this if we're going to do this at all and over and over again discovery says no yeah i would like to have seen what it actually looks like to make concessions with a tyrant and for the tyrant to make concessions back but instead she just says you want to arrest me [ __ ] you then i'm taking it all back you're a fool it makes her look like an idiot because she never even so many players she never even so like how dare they even ask that of me and it's like yeah of course i cannot ask that is you it was like she was too stupid to even even like think for a moment that that was a potential that could happen like to her it was a genuine surprise that they wanted to arrest her for her crime still she for a woman who's apparently so smart she couldn't see that and it makes her just look like an idiot who chucks a tantrum and throws away the chance for the storyline to end in a good way and just decides we're going to drive this to end in boom we're going to drive this to the inevitable conclusion of i'm going to be evil and shoot things and then i will get killed like it is just tiring jonas what do you think about what have you thought about osira and what do you think about this idea like do you think if they wrote it in a different way you could actually go somewhere with this or is she just too evil and boring of a character to actually no i think you you're right uh it was a miss opportunity because you have this you have this villain who obviously like discovery we only hear what she does you don't see you don't have like a like a brief history of what she's done or you know you just know she's evil because they tell you that she's evil but they could have done this without the federation and that's what the federation wants at the end they want you know govern they want to accept other governments they want to accept other other species that that conform to their beliefs or whatever so she would have done it you know but it could have been made into okay yeah she's going in for peace maybe she wasn't thinking that they were gonna ask for her head but guess what uh she has a console back in somewhere and now she communicates with them or they're they're right there next to her making these uh appeals for peace and as soon as uh they say well we need her we need her head you know the council decides yep we're gonna do this because we want peace and then they sacrifice her you know instead of well where is this whole government that you talk about when you're not willing to do this for your for your chain for your people um so you know it could have been so much better to present her as a real a surreal villain and and and for her to have a plan because when she walks back into into discovery she's like okay now i'm going to show them what how bad i am it's like well now it's too late because uh you just looked at the immediate like you said you know she showed her hand and it just showed her the how weak she really is like i agree where's this other council where these people like they could sacrifice or even have the bold move of her actually showing us how dedicated she is to her own plan and say yeah i surrender i'm willing to do that and thus that would actually be a twist i mean it's not really that big of a one we've seen many times the villain willingly sacrifices themselves but actually they've got a secret agenda but you could do something with that or give her more of a reason for why they shouldn't arrest her to add to an ambiguity of the scene to make it feel like maybe vance is a thing yeah like give us something like make it feel like there's a tug and a pull between the two negotiators because there's no point where i didn't disagree with vance or think he was asking too much or pushing too hard he was very reasonable and then and left told her the apple was made of


he was a mini pants but he wasn't and and and like it just makes this whole thing and and the thing that i said too which i again ties into jonas's point that makes us dull is what is this propelling this propels to nowhere there's no ground being made here because all she reverts back to is being what she was before which is i'm going to shoot my way to victory so each season of discovery is just a treadmill yeah but this plot here all it offers up is a thought exercise and nothing else it doesn't propel the themes or the plot or the characters it interest introduces an interesting idea for them just to say yeah but that's an idea not a plot not a thing not a tangible thing we could explore it's just an idea and aren't you sick and tired rachel of discovery just saying look here's an idea and they're not doing anything with it oh yeah especially when they want to be given credit for all the things that they don't actually do i have to say this had one of the most intense negotiation scenes i've seen in a while i am of course talking about the federation's admiral vance versus osira of the emerald chain a standoff for the ages i lost my mind and i wonder if you did too jonas when osiris just nonchalantly declared i can replicate the spore drive you guys can't like the federation you guys are incapable of doing that i didn't know that they were incapable of doing that because they've just never discussed trying to replicate it ever again after that one episode what do you think about that jonas were you surprised by that or what well we don't have any sense of time so how long have they been back from the past uh but you would think that if your biggest problem with the federation in the future is that you cannot travel far enough so you would think that the first thing they do is oh guess what uh i know you guys are riding horses but i have a car should we start making more cars yeah it's like they decided okay we have a a spaceship that can take us anywhere in an instant but let's put that on the back for now we don't need that right now so yeah they that that was just because early on vance was like i'm going to separate your crew we're going to analyze the ship we're going to delve into the science and then discovery said no no no no let us be in charge of all of that and then they said oh okay and then it never went anywhere further the closest thing we got was jonas do you remember early in this season tilly was like hey i figured out i've got a theory that we could use the spore drive without a human we could use it use anti-matter or black mata and then paul was like hmm there's some merit to that and then we've never touched that ever again until osiris says no you guys have no scientific way of making this work i do it's like oh okay is that it is no her way is one i've suggested in the past just grow the the tardigrade cells and inject other people with it which they're 930 years in the future how come the federation can't do could that should have occurred to somebody else by now it makes the federation look dumb and pathetic and like oh they are well and truly pathetic that's not the only reason that they're empathetic and also you do see the transfer of technology from them to discovery you see the the programmable uh programmable matter programmable matter and and all that so what do you think that they they would be able to to replicate that and and do that as soon as possible because it did transfer from them to discovery but it didn't work the other way yeah one of the things that i remember early on too that they used as a fallback position for why they couldn't get the details of it was the spor the sphere data was protecting all the information and and that's one of the reasons why they had a hard time getting the sport drive and details but in this episode osiri has all of the data and the sphere data did [ __ ] nothing to protect anyone from anything ever it just like was like i'm just gonna be hiding in a buster keaton video but then it does protect them at other points or in the last episode no in this at the end it's like and i've put myself the sphere data i've put myself in robots that can be destroyed yeah thus i can be destroyed but isn't there a line from tilly or saroo at some stage if it being like uh i think that we protected the sphere data and now it wants to protect us oh that was from saroo to explain why the sphere data made the computer come to life in that one episode to give him the information he needed to complete his arc in that episode and then it never came back to life again the computer and they never talked about how the computer came to life that one time no now jonas you you you're you're it's not convenient no so we ignore it jonas you've watched star trek you've watched science fiction stuff you write science fiction how crazy is it that in this show the computer came to life and no one cared if you remember that whole episode before the end of that season where they kept moving from one ship to another the reason was because the sphere there didn't let them destroy itself and so it protected the whole ship and you would think yeah this is the future but maybe the sphere data has some information on on on these people as well and so the moment they went in there and they are trying to you know transform or reprogram the whole ship no one stops them no one's no one shuts down the the ship or anything they're just like move in and and do it without the sphere data coming up and it has become that where the sphere data is only necessary when they want to and it's supposed to be an autonomous it's supposed to be uh uh artificial intelligence or something so why doesn't it act accordingly you know and it shouldn't just be one episode it should have been throughout uh that is doing this as maybe like as another member of the crew you know as a as a an all-seeing eye because it has a hundred thousand years of knowledge so use that use that make us believe that make it a character yeah make it into a character like like we've had that before you know and it's like why not oh sweetheart do you want an idea to be developed in star trek discovery yeah yes bless your hearts you're still holding out hope of that but that's what that's what the third season it promised that yeah but the third season here's the thing too each season does this but the third is very egregious in terms of is this a serialized story where each season floats in the next or are they supposed to be solitary anthology like seasons because the third season it needed to address the fact it had the sphere data that's why they went to the future the whole thing is that and in the future no one wants the data when in the beginning the data was like i'm going to give you all of this information so it can benefit your people when you need it the most and then in the past when we're in season two it didn't want to give itself over because the control agent was going to use it for evil here we are in the future now when our people need this information and the sphere data is never mentioned really nobody wants it nobody talks about it the sphere data doesn't hand itself over or give any benefits to anyone and then the spore drive we're in a universe in which people cannot travel quickly and nobody wants a sport drive until this episode in which osiris just captures the ship and it's not like she captured it because she wants a sport drive she just captured it because it has information on it but not even like i think random characters have mentioned that like oh sarah is going to want the spore drive but the thing is they never established however osiris knew about the spore drive at any point they just wore she just walks in going i know everything because i scan the ship one time a scan will not tell you that they have a spore drive located in this one area that's identical to 15 other labs remember i don't know but they they can transport right into the cage yeah jonas if you remember correctly what was the last time they used a sport drive to do what did they do last time do they use the sport drive um uh uh to find what nebula


um to find a solution for for giorgio oh yes they they use the sphere data and they say we put it in three times or so whatever and it gave us the same answer okay so you used it to save the the bad lady but now because in this in this future you have to burn and you have all this data why when did you ask the sphere data hey uh you know hundred thousand years of knowledge what do you think happened here they never michael needs to find those black boxes though yeah michael needs to find black boxes that's why they don't ask it because michael has to have the arc of being proven right about if we just find these boxes and we get this data we'll be able to figure out where the burn started the reason when i i agree i think if they asked the sphere data in episode one it would have been able to answer and that's a good thing though and that's the thing though the sphere data by design is a deus ex machina by design it will just erase any plot points so they have on purposely omitted it being in the series but you can't help but think about it because that's the reason that they're in the [ __ ] show in the future you can't help but think about and then that's the same with the spore drive the spore drive it works people would want it but they omit any of that because that would get in the way of the real drama which is what caused the burn and the thing that was important to her was to get this black box that can help solve the mystery of the burn and here's the problem that is really happening for us you can have an overarching serialized thing that doesn't have to be this grand important thing as long as what you are replacing that with is character stuff if you have good character play and good character dynamics then everything in terms of the bigger plot can be okay there's like voyager is a fun show but overall it's overarching narrativey stuff isn't that great but you have fun characters and fun little stories to patch that up and if you don't have fun character stuff as long as you have an interesting big overarching serial story to latch on to with twists and turns then it's fine at least but disgusting but discovery wasted time not achieving either you know what we we're talking about like all the sphere data this and and the spore drive that and osira this the show wasted time with [ __ ] like oh it's not interested in those things but it wastes time on little [ __ ] like like for instance i got thrown off in this episode when this intense sequence where book is about to crash land the ship and the back of discovery which is very reminiscent of star trek five the final frontier very good one to evoke where out of nowhere a hologram of grudge appears and he says oh grudge is secure what was that what if we needed a grudge update we we needed a gr that's a thing we need an update on the [ __ ] cat more so than what the sphere date is doing or what the sport drive or anything or even or even who the [ __ ] adira is as a character or why gray is in the show


identifying as a father oh yeah yeah yeah yeah he's a great fathership journey that happens entirely off screen that's something i really want to talk to you


he's like you know i have a kid yeah adira they're my kid and i was just like is this stabbits being an [ __ ] and like no it's genuine it's like it's like come again what you're a father when did this happen or like did you ask her that you wanted to be her father i just feel it didn't feel personal it didn't feel genuine it felt like he was just plain the the scientists but the they want to make you believe that they have this relationship but you're never giving me aside from him saying it's okay it's okay to be different there's nothing else that makes that makes them you know aside from a scene where they're all together but no show me the the relationship developing yeah they're the found family but all of it happens off screen and i i wonder jonas if our shows informed you or even if you've noticed on the watching or re-watching how many things in season three are just you have to assume that happened because we didn't show you it we just happened off-screen adira and and paul's relationship off-screen osiran whatever the [ __ ] she's been doing off-screen book and michael's magical year away that explains why her character is the way she is off screen have you noticed this like when what do you think about that i wonder if they they just try to expand so much that they want you know like in in other star treks they they make it happen in front of you so that you know and and even in picard uh but but here is like well if we mention it we bring it into the universe if we mention it we bring it into universe and so now it's like now you just happen to believe it uh but just like like like on the last episode lorca i seriously wanted to see lorca i wanted to see him because i've i like the guy i like the guy in the good in way before we found out he was a bad guy and then when he became the bad guy he was bad and i liked that that he was true to himself but then you know here is like no you're just gonna have to believe us but they just forgot that i don't know they're just trying to to give to like expand our universe without seeing it but yeah it just fails yeah and it's like okay i get it you can't show us everything on screen but what you should show us should be interesting important or at least great but they do [ __ ] like remember this is i'm sorry i just had a flashback remember that detma had ptsd you wouldn't [ __ ] know it by looking at her in this episode she seems pretty determined she sounds like that story never [ __ ] happened ryan did you know that michael t talks in her sleep did you know that


okay okay when michael was running around and she got stabbed in the leg her first thought was take the knife out of my leg which is one of the first things you shouldn't do in that situation bleed out my first thought was and it always makes me laugh because this comes up a lot when i watch discovery which is michael's a xeno anthropologist by the way she's supposed to just be a scientist she's an engineering background because everybody's an engineer oh yeah i don't think there's a single non-engineer character maybe saroo but like it's so funny to me to remember that she's supposed to be just a an anthropologist and a quantum physicist like that's what she's supposed to be it always amuses me because every character is supposed to be something that's very scientific and nerdy she was in a courier for a year and that changed her and yet they're all acting like they're captain kirk where captain kirk was always like a rough and tumble guy but like i can't imagine in tng geordie getting in situations like michael does he's just a nerd and an engineer like hey he'll he'll hold his own he'll give you a punch but like i can't imagine jordy like running around throwing a knife at people and like doing kung fu fist fights because he's just an engineer he's just a nerd we demand that you return our crew member immediately request tonight lower your shields request denied it we got to talk about michael burnham everyone's favorite character and her whole entire plot this episode is to run around and oh i really loved when she attacked the guy who stabbed her she a great way for someone who's apparently studied stealth tactics is to scream out hey and then punch them i really like that that was a little moment that made me chuckle a lot because i was like aren't you supposed to have the act of like aren't you supposed to take him by surprise because if she didn't yell out hey maybe he wouldn't have stabbed her in the leg yeah


why not just vulcan neck pinch him and nerve pinch him you did it to paul chokes him out with her legs instead she black widows him yeah yeah rachel michael burnham is running around and the big plot for her is she stops paul from staying on the ship because he wants to save the people he he loves how do you feel about michael's actions and her position in the episode because her position is i've got to do this for the greater good the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few other ones she's doing that type of logical play here where it's like paul you're a risk for osira to do more damage i've got to get you off of you i'm sorry i like paul and adira too but screw your needs hugh and adira yeah hugh and adira sorry hugh and adira um screw units what do you think about michael and paul's kind of dynamic here it feels stupid and contrived how so because it's just so that there's more drama it doesn't feel like that's a tactical decision it's just like it feels like she's just thinking okay what can i do next what can i do next what can i do next it doesn't feel like she actually has a plan or knows what she's doing and i agree with all the stuff that stamets says yeah like it makes more sense for them to use the spawn drive and get away from federation headquarters and to use the spore drive to take back this ship and to like use the fact that they're in an engineering area and subvert and undo osiris systems and use the sphere data see i'm actually on the opposite end i agreed with michael but not fully it made sense to me to remove paul so that way you're removing osiris power because osira could just easily take him over his mind and do a hell of like a lot of damage with with the spore drive i mean you remember in season one when lorca used the sport drive for military moves imagine osiri doing that she could easily do that if she wanted to i understood that what i didn't buy was the drama of it which is paul it really hinges on you buying into the fact that paul is this now newly founded father who cares so much about adira i get the caring about uh hugh i understand that that that feels real that feels bought into but once he finds out that uh adira is down there too he like emotionally snaps and goes cuckoo bananas to the point in which i couldn't buy his argument anymore he can't handle it and it was done in the way where it was so that michael could be right because look how unem like look how emotionally unstable paul is his argument doesn't have any volition anymore because he's compromised emotionally just like saroo is just like tilius just like everyone other than when michael's emotionally compromised when anyone that's fine when anyone isn't michael is emotionally compromised they are wrong no but michael her being worried about book fine yeah jonas you wrote to to to me on twitter that was one of your points that you wanted to talk about was how much of a hypocrite it is of michael where michael in this season so many times screwed over people disobey direct orders because she cared so much about her boyfriend book but in this situation before they were actually together yeah but in this one screw stamets for wanting to do the exact same thing how did you like isn't it crazy oh yeah i was i wanted to slap uh michael right there because it's like saying i don't care about your feelings i don't care that your boyfriend already died once i don't care that they're dying a slow debt of radiation poisoning i don't want to hear your plan just do what i tell you i'm gonna shoot you out of this ship and and you're never gonna see your family again you know and this is the one miss opportunity that i also saw because this could have been the moment that the focus has changed to staminas saying hey i know what to do let me jump back to the nebula inside the nebula get everybody you know something because they could have done something else or or you know uh this i guess osara was already back in the ship by this point so maybe that's why and yeah uh he could have like she could have come and control him again but but the point is the he didn't have that thing in the head anymore so at that point he couldn't control her but why not give stannis consideration to think okay let's let's think it out you have a plan what's your plan no it was no i'm gonna shoot you out and i don't care and i'm gonna cry so that everybody knows that i'm genuinely hurting but i don't care about your pain which at this point i think it was bigger than her um you know she wanted to go rescue her boyfriend uh who wasn't her boyfriend yet but but you know it didn't matter because she wanted to do it and they disobeyed a direct order from the you know from vance uh to go but she did it anyways and now that this guy is who's gone through a lot you know her boyfriend dying and then and then and then resurrecting again and and then him rejecting him again and it's like okay well yeah but that's not enough i'm gonna do what we're gonna do my thing i mean you guys already sacrificed your lives in the past to come with me to the future because you guys care about me so much but i don't care about you [ __ ] you oh we don't need to think like scientists or military figures in any sort of way yeah i was just like why can't why can't his plan work and give us more excitement you know but but no it had to be what she says because because at the end all that matters is and he's right when he said we came for you we we did all this and he's right but at the end it doesn't matter because she's still in charge the reason his plan does not get obeyed and worked and is rejected is there's two reasons we need to have book take over his job as driving the sport drive thus he has a reason to be in the show any further um because the only reason he has to be in the show at this point is to be her boyfriend there's no other reason we have to give him a reason he drives the ship now the other reason the second one is so that there can be hanging over drama for next season between paul and michael because in the final episode when she's the captain he gives her this look like he's still pissed off and even our good friend julio who was on a few episodes back he said to me like oh aren't you interested to see how that drama is gonna is how it's gonna play out next season and i'm like no not really because what is there to play out just pogue is like a pissy little ant about it and then michael says sorry i had to do it like there's not a lot of drama to be mined from from it but that's the two these are the same beats that were done with denmark and paul at the start of this season and we've seen star trek discovery throw away carrying over drama like remember in the first season when it was like paul cannot use the spore drive again because it's unhealthy for him and then in the second season pike was just like ah you can do it it's fine it's fine and then it never mattered again and even though there was like morally wrong for lorca to ask him to do it it was morally okay for pike to ask him to do it for lesser reasons they don't care about that kind of stuff so that's the two reasons poll is and it's so unfair and it's so unfair for for them not to give stem is this uh yeah it's the end of the season but still it's like they've been abusing him in the past two seasons they've been abusing him and and yet it's okay we we still want to abuse you so go out into space my question is what do we even do with paul now because since season two he's not wanted to be on the ship like he's actively like had this attitude for the last two seasons that he hasn't wanted like doesn't want to be there and all he wants to do is just be happy with with with hugh who rejects that happiness time and time again because of his own drama which we can talk about and now now he doesn't even have the position of being the only one who can operate the spore drive so other than having a pissing mat match with michael and with hugh next season what do you do with stamets as a character now he actually serves literally no function now on the ship he's there's no reason to have him there because he actively doesn't want to be there and now he doesn't even serve the role of being the thing that turns the spore drive on so what is there nothing really and that's a shame because he was one of the characters that i found the most interesting from the start of the show and now i dread seeing him in season 4 because i just think oh well he has no purpose just like all these other characters that they've wasted over the years at the end of the season this is home now and we need somebody to lead us in this new future who really understands it who understands us who's willing to take risks michael burnham is the hero that we need in that moment last thing i want to talk about before the huda is the episode ends with the cliffhanger like dramatic sting of the spore drive i mean the sphere data has put itself in the dots which we've been setting up all season they're in the intro credits and everything um upon the re-watch even on the initial watch this is the most lackluster thing ever um and then on the re-watch value of it being lackluster all you do all i remember is they just get shot mercilessly and then one of them just turns on a switch off screen uh and that's all it serves so when you end the episode being like it's put itself in the dots it's going to do all this stuff and then you realize when you re-watch it oh they actually don't do much it's a really piss week ending to the episode as well which ties into jonas's whole thing of like this episode is insufferable to watch on a level because you do get to the end and you have the dots and they're doing the vulcan salute with their three fingers and and you go oh yeah that's right this is a thing like rachel when you watched it you said oh right ryan you can uh turn on the rest of the episode because rachel walked out of the room as soon as the it went to black came back was like you can turn on the rest of the episode i'm like no that's where it ended because it's such a lackluster ending rachel how do you feel about the the dots thing on the re-watch value does this does this sustain anything they put him in the credits it doesn't sustain anything for me doesn't make anything interesting they're kind of cute but that has nothing to do with the storyline it adds no merit but they're kind of cute but they're cool but they're color coded the blue red yellow like isn't that cool like one of that means one of them oh my god [ __ ] totally changed my mind like that just changes everything they're color-coded oh my god does that mean that like some of them are commands some of them are medical oh do they treat each other do they have their own rings is one of them the captain of the dots oh my god everything has changed now rachel they've been here since season one i know it's it's very funny jonas what about you with the dots ending the episode my goodness uh if you remember we spent a lot of time on season 2 downloading the sphere data uploading to sierra data when it got to the ship it created such a massive mess everybody's speaking in different languages yeah and it was everywhere and the whole point was it cannot download fast enough because there's a whole planet's worth of knowledge and you mean to tell me that it downloaded itself into a bunch of little robots that i'm sure they don't have a lot of capacity i mean unless they're like surgical robots or something but it is uh it is they could have done so much with this i mean the freaking sphere data could have been come in and kick ass and and like done so much like i would have loved to see all of them running around because the sphere data is messing with their doors and it's messing with the you know with the cowboy guy and doing all kinds of stuff like like really you know show me the sphere data escape capacity or capability instead is oh no they're just a bunch of cute little robots because we want to every time i see one of those i think r2d2 that's all i think about and and i cannot separate that in my mind so it's like no we want to look cute we want to we want to show them you know i have toys yeah yeah


us wanting a character out of the sphere we want it to matter well it's supposed to be because it's supposed to be going it's supposed to have the capacity to take over the whole ship and yeah and do all these other kinds of things and and where is it i lost my mind when at one point they said that like how much percentage of data the sphere data is and it's like less than what i can fit on my external hard drive right now and like i was like i thought this was like huge i thought this was like a massive amount of data like you said like it made sure sick getting it transported on it explode like but no no is it hiding itself somehow no no it's in the dots and it's only it's only like 10 megabytes or something like it's so so stupid and we also wanted to be a character because we know it becomes a character in that short track remember there's that short track where the guy the calypso short track and it's voiced by the same actress and it's like the ships are alive and it has a personality that's also subconsciously planted in our brain of we've seen the data become a character so here it is not being one and then even in the episode with suru had a little bit of a personality when talking to saroo and then in these episodes it's like oh no personality and there's been no episodes in between to further it so you're just sitting there going oh it's in the dots where's this going to lead and you remember it leads to nothing other than one of them sacrifices himself when o.o faints in the next episode which oh boy it's like it's like having a bunch of it's like having a bunch of huge guns and then and you don't use them it's like having an arsenal of i mean discovery is it's one of the best equipped uh ships as far as transportation-wise sport data uh knowledge-wise uh data you know the the sphere data it's just like and it's like you're not using it why are you not using this you know to expand to really expand instead of taking instead of keeping us in the micro universe you know shoot us off and show us the possibilities but nope because it all gets in the way of the story that they want to tell those would be their own stories but they just want to tell you the story about the sea locusts that are affecting books planet and how or sukhal being this big mystery for the whole season in which you know the answer is his mummy died they're not interested in telling these type of stories that you think would happen you think that they would follow through on the things that they set up like remember terrorisium from last season and how that was going to be their home base like literally michael's mother made an entire civilization with a religious background and everything to prepare to be prepared for their arrival in the future in this season they mention it like ah yeah talk to tara lee sim they're all right we're never gonna go there they just they're not interested in following up or expanding upon the things that we would want them to they just want you to be like what's the burn who caused the burn sue cole did but why did sukhol cause the burn we [ __ ] know why from minute one it's because his mum died we got it he caused the burn let's talk about hugh colbert rachel it's time for the huda hugh was not here in this episode but they talked about him a lot and that was kind of it not much to talk about with you colbert but jonas i i'm i want to talk to you about hugh what has your feelings been about uh hugh colbert as a character on your watching of it and uh have how much has it uh been affected now by hearing our show in which we have a weekly discussion about just his character specifically well hearing you guys talk about it i i started thinking back to all the star treks and and how the the medical uh character always has such a huge influence uh barely you know even even the counselor you know yeah and so here he was just it's just a character he's just painted on the wall he is just uh he's non-existent you know he's he serves a purpose they want to show this this relationship between samus and him and that's it you know because you never see really see him you know like like beverly just going and saving people and and and and checking you know like doing all this medicine a doctor that does medicine a doctor with plots about medicine too would be fun to watch ethical medical decisions the doctor in voyage is one of my favorite star trek characters and all of his episodes primarily focus around him being a doctor in a in a state he couldn't even get out of his in his medical base so he did more than than this guy yeah


but what about the third season do you think like us that they've managed to expand him into that role a little bit more or is it still not there for you if you think about it one second we were 800 900 years ago one second we were there and and he was having doubts and they were about to break up and and he hadn't he wanted nothing to do with paul and then they come to the future instantly and now all that is gone nothing else happened after that they they've been happily ever after and it's like oh wait wait a second but in reality it's just been moments since you transfer you know and so where did all that go because he was really messed up on on the last season he was so messed up in the head because i think we would all be you know if we resurrected and all of a sudden this is my body but it's not my body and and i don't feel like myself and you know and so all that is gone but he had a conversation with the admiral who used to be a therapist and that solved all of his problems and then he waited several episodes to tell stamets that actually i still love you and then because i had to wait until the season finale and then that's when everything went ah i can't they're happy again i i can't get over in this season they bring up these issues from season two like last episode sue carl they bring up his whole identity issues yet at the same time the justification for why he stays the justification for why the drama needs to continue but also they don't want to address the fact that a guy who just had a severe identity crisis to the point of not being sure about his position as a doctor or a boyfriend he's totally down for being a father in this down for it not even one moment of hesitation not even a moment of hesitation of for instance he said in one episode that if i had the time i would be a father i would have kids but here's the thing that's the thing they paul and hugh had a massive relationship rift last season that was huge one of them was going to leave but having kids solves relationships no point did anyone in the relationship question hey maybe having a kid to patch up our drama is unhealthy in this they're like no that's totally rad we should totally avoid our own drama by adding a child to it it'll solve everything well we'll have to come together to help a dear and i like this child because weirdly enough they have the same dramatic story we do which is they have a dead ghost lover that only they can see and we have to resurrect them next season no and he's the most unstable character at the end of season two and now he this season he's off giving advice to everybody and he knows what's best for the whole crew you know it's just follow through you know if you're gonna do this give me consistency you're telling me that this character is flaw or because of what happened or he's traumatized and then carry him over and get him over that and then but all of a sudden now boom at 900 years in the future now he's a super consular he knows what's best even though he's not the counselor he's not a therapist he knows what the crew needs and and and and everything revolves around that that he's trying to heal the crew or he's trying to better you know the the whole crew where where it's very it it doesn't work like that i think it's it gives it presents a lot of opportunities for me as an actor but also for the show um to deal with those kinds of issues so um yeah i think i think it's exciting for dr culver to to to bring those two things together that the physical and the mental are you know we look at we look at a person's health health holistically um and that that is uh the way of the future rachel what would you give there is a tide would you give it a yum meaning bad or yum yum being good i think it's still a yum yum um i'm a bit conflicted um we've had a streak of weird episodes from discovery while this felt like a stock standing awful so it's not like an obvious yum yum but i don't feel like it's enough i mean it's not an obvious yum and i don't think there's quite enough to make it a yum yum i agree my rating is a yum yum on the biggest basis of wasted potential this is a waste of potential discretion has been various forms of they could have yeah and and and that's the thing when i sit back and look at the episode i'm not thinking about the actual episode i'm thinking about that could have been that this episode could have generated but that doesn't mean the episode did anything on its own how about you jonas you would think that it we feel this way because it's a two-parter right or because you know this is actually no this is not a two-parter but because this is the one right before the end um but but it's not it's just it's incomplete so it and and nothing happened uh i mean if i can think of one good thing that happened in this whole episode uh i would say they say i love you yeah i would say uh the the apple conversation yeah that was about that that is a highlight vance was pretty good he's very solid he represents the federation and he he's a solid character and he carried through this is what you would expect from the federation you know hitler is coming and saying i wanna i wanna make peace and you say well you need to die and that's what would happen you know so for that just for vance just for him i'm going to give this a yum yeah i mean it would get nothing yeah if it wasn't for him so it's still bad but if it wasn't for and i agree now imagine this imagine if discovery was filled with characters like admiral vance now that would be a [ __ ] show you know characters that would be star trek star fleet characters yeah that would be star trek i'm imagining that crazy that's not what star trek in the opera 21st trek it's not star trek yeah well it it's star trek in ways but in more ways than not it's it's it's trying to it evokes star trek five what what do you want that's the thing i look i i personally don't think that star trek discovery isn't star trek i just wish that it wasn't trying to be that type of show in which it's like hey you know that thing you like well this is us twisting and inverting it and trying to play i just wish that one of these new star trek shows was just a star trek show because in the 90s you had deep space nine and deep swiss nine was twisting things and testing morality and doing things a bit different oh we're on a space station ooh this but you know what made it work other than it was well-written show with great characters and they were all starfleet characters anyway a lot of them you still had tng you still had voyager you still had the original series you still had things that represented the norm so that way when you had something that was the juxtaposition you had something to mirror it off of but in discovery's landscape all of the new star trek shows are like rejecting the things that people like about star trek in this way but there's no current show that is like oh that's just like a normal star trek show the orville is like the normal star trek show i mean discovery would work in the landscape of one of the other star trek shows is like tng or like a normal show and then this is like playing around with it but they're all just playing around with it to the point in which it's like i just wish that you would stop playing and just be a star trek show fully embrace your star trek are you ready to hear about the next episode the last episode of season three that hope is you part two you know that they named it the last second it had a different name it wasn't supposed to be a part one and part two no i do know that because it still stands out as being a stupid decision but imdb offers up this synopsis as the emerald chain tightens its grip get it cause it's a chain yeah i got it and and the mystery of the burn is finally solved it was sold several episodes ago burnham and the crew have one last chance to save themselves they've had multiple chances and the federation i like your little snide at additions to that the last thing i think we should all uh say about this episode was uh look we complained that we didn't learn a lot about our characters or fulfilled but you know what we did get some epic law about andorian opera and wasn't that worth it maybe one day we'll watch starbucks in that right hall and hear those multiple undertones oh if it turns out yeah like oh i love that we got a whole endorian opera speech it was brilliant brilliant writing i'm glad that we didn't know that we got a grudge update i'm glad that we didn't understand what i don't even know what the piecings were oh yeah they were like for children because yeah children are is that is that all a law element that's added here yeah i'm pretty sure groundbreaking and just so that you guys know that this show is about faith still children are a blessing and i have a child and they're a blessing get it blessing we get your spiritual um so jonas tell uh everyone and ourselves where people can find you and your show and uh you know just give us your plugs no thank you uh again i'm jonas uh my podcast is the short short podcast and you can find me spotify apple podcast and all platforms or also at twitter at the short shorts one um and that's pretty much it just you know they're not your typical short stories they're short they're meant to be short because uh i just feel like you know some people just wanna hear something get into it and then move on uh and it's it's not your conventional podcast uh i feel sometimes people think that it's not a podcast because i'm not there talking uh it's just you get there you hear it you get the short story and that's it uh but yeah if fine find me there and thank you so much guys uh this has been very very um uh an opportunity for me to vent all my frustration and and and i every time i heard your podcast and i heard rachel implore to you know to stop watching this and and and how painful it was well now i know yeah now i know and it's crazy because when i was watching season one and season two you know how many times i watched season one season two a lot and it was never this painful it was never this painful and now it's like oh my god it's just unsee it i'm sorry that we made you awake and see the details that aren't there so now you can't enjoy you you choose this episode we remove the ignorance's bliss from i take the red pill yeah exactly well it's been a pleasure yes we'll include all the links to jonas's show in the description of this episode as well and uh yeah check out his stuff nice bite-sized episodes really really goes down well you can find us on those social medias facebook twitter instagram reddit yum yum pod or yum yum podcast we're always engaging with people furthering discussions putting posts on there asking more questions about things that we've discussed sharing stuff so we're always on there if you haven't followed us on any of those make sure to do so we also have our patreon in which we have further content we talk about the star trek movies we talk about some of the best and worst rated episodes of star trek we talk about just our general thoughts on other pieces of media uh so that is yum yum podcast on patreon again all this is in the description of the episode make sure to rate and review us and whatever podcatcher allows it it is always greatly greatly great we greatly greatly appreciate it five stars greatly great yeah i appreciate it make sure you put a yum or yum yum in your reviews so that way we know that you're a die-hard fan of of the show hey hey jonas do you think that this episode would have been better if nan flicked his hair back at one point licked her lips sexily and said yum yum in retort to someone do you think would have been i think she could have made it so much better or if they called the dots ai sausages ah if they were little floating ai sausages that would have been that would have been that would have been the killer so programmable matter you can do whatever you want you can do whatever you want so thank you jonas for coming on thank you rachel for for um enduring the episodes of star trek discovery thank you for acknowledging that and and suffering for the art